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Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

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When this level of pedantry starts to be an issue I think we've taken a wrong turn somewhere. FFS.
it's not pedantry - it's a crucial point that something called a transwoman cannot be a woman but "trans woman" is a woman who is trans. some people use transwoman out of ignorance but others use it deliberately to make precisely that point - that trans women aren't women.
 
it's not pedantry - it's a crucial point that something called a transwoman cannot be a woman but "trans woman" is a woman who is trans. some people use transwoman out of ignorance but others use it deliberately to make precisely that point - that trans women aren't women.

A crucial point? FFS, exactly what I mean, get some perspective on this, and where this issue sits among the problems in the world today.
 
ps I've not got an anti-trans viewpoint, I've got a viewpoint that differs from that of a bunch of self appointed transrights activists, most of whom aren't trans.

that's a really odd statement. So you're fine with trans women and allies as long as we stay out of politics. And I think it's really unlikely that most "transrights" activists aren't trans. Got something to back this up?
 
A crucial point? FFS, exactly what I mean, get some perspective on this, and where this issue sits among the problems in the world today.
that's 0k. I'm used to being told to shut up and stop worrying. If it's such a fucking trivial thing then why do those who campaign against us always make the point of writing it in a way that invalidates us?
 
that's 0k. I'm used to being told to shut up and stop worrying. If it's such a fucking trivial thing then why do those who campaign against us always make the point of writing it in a way that invalidates us?

I've heard loads of criticisms on topics around this issue, I've just literally never heard this issue with whether it's transwomen or trans women.
 
amazing - us using 'cis' is disrespectful deal breaker but you guys using "transwomen" for us is trivial. Yeah I got that. this is all about cis people. Gotcha!
 
No, and neither did 'classic liberals'. My political compass is JS Mill, who was not just years ahead of his own time, but is years ahead of now, with his thoughts on democracy, women's rights and free speech.



Please advise me of anything I have ever said that is 'bigoted'.

I wasn't attacking you over the Daily Mail, just your comrades. I was attacking you for cosying up to a Tory misogynist. I think it reveals you as part of a movement that has lost all semblance of objectivity, that is reduced to conspiracy theories and crackpot 1970s sexology, and that is largely motivated by bigotry. That's why when other feminists are out campaigning to save women's services from closure you're forming alliances with the people doing it. You are a danger to working class women, cis, trans or otherwise.
 
Like one of the replies says, 'this is a very complex situation' and with respect to the OP, this appears to be pretty much a singular outlier and these characteristics are not shared by 'trans women'. How does this support any argument that 'trans women' are female, or even women?

They weren't talking about trans women, they were responding to your nonsense about intersex people.
 
Re-hi.

I don't spend an awful lot of time on Twitter as I get roped into so many conversations, as often by people with opposing views to myself. Also, I'm not responsible for what my followers say, and I am not going to defend someone else's beliefs, only my own. FWIW I don't even agree with much of what the people I follow say. You may also notice I will often tell someone when I disagree with what they say, even if we are supposed to be 'friends'. But like I said, I'm not on there all the time.

Please would you outline here or on DM here (or on Twitter) what was said that was 'Islamophobic'? I'd appreciate that, thanks.
Well, you didn't challenge anything Mary King said, which is interesting- but I do understand you aren't responsible for fellow travellers.
And for the islamophobia read pragmatic chick's timeline. She didn't tag you in- she appears to be one of Mary King's mates.
 
I've heard loads of criticisms on topics around this issue, I've just literally never heard this issue with whether it's transwomen or trans women.
oh well obviously if you've never heard of it it's not a thing, because what do I know? I only get attacked by trans excluders on a nearly daily basis for existing and having an opinion that they disagree with. And I and every other trans person who's noticed this was obviously imagining it. No wonder you prefer your trans women non-political, and gagged - oh, unless they agree with you, presumably.
 
that's a really odd statement. So you're fine with trans women and allies as long as we stay out of politics. And I think it's really unlikely that most "transrights" activists aren't trans. Got something to back this up?
this thread (check the top posters on the thread), multiple facebook interactions, observation of multiple trans rights related protests and campaigns, seeing how it's worked in the green party / young greens etc.

The majority of those who involve themselves heavily in these discussions and associated protests, no platforming campaigns etc supposedly on behalf of trans people aren't trans themselves. Some may class themselves as identity curious, most seem to be men who class themselves as allies.

And by all means get involved with politics, but focusing most of your efforts on disrupting and no platforming long standing feminist and gay rights campaigners / campaigns isn't how to win people over to your viewpoint, it just means that all sides lose as people on all sides of the argument get pissed off and stop being involved in anything at all.
 
#wrongkindatrans

Seriously though, being attacked like this by a bunch of blokes who profess to be trans allies really makes me worry; their compassion for trans people seems to be a veil for their moral disgust.

I don't have a problem with you being attacked. If you were a racist bitch I'd be attacking you. What I'd also be doing is arguing against your arguments even if I thought you were beyond contempt.
 
oh well obviously if you've never heard of it it's not a thing, because what do I know? I only get attacked by trans excluders on a nearly daily basis for existing and having an opinion that they disagree with. And I and every other trans person who's noticed this was obviously imagining it. No wonder you prefer your trans women non-political, and gagged - oh, unless they agree with you, presumably.
Attacked? Gagged? Near daily basis? Bit to much egg in pudding.
 
And by all means get involved with politics, but focusing most of your efforts on disrupting and no platforming long standing feminist and gay rights campaigners / campaigns isn't how to win people over to your viewpoint, it just means that all sides lose as people on all sides of the argument get pissed off and stop being involved in anything at all.

You may not have noticed, but there's been something of a campaign going on in the last couple of years to prevent a new Gender Recognition Act, a campaign that appears to have been successful, and involves many of those 'long standing feminist and gay rights campaigners' cosying up to proven anti-gay rights, anti-women's rights right wingers like David Davies. Every time an institution becomes trans-inclusive, this nexus of dubious forces cranks into gear to personally vilify the trans people involved. Given that these are the current places of fracture of the ongoing quest for trans rights, what exactly do you expect trans rights campaigners to focus on instead?
 
amazing - us using 'cis' is disrespectful deal breaker but you guys using "transwomen" for us is trivial. Yeah I got that. this is all about cis people. Gotcha!

So the only option available to me, if I want to reject the label cis, is to pick some other gender identity. I am not permitted to deny that I have a gender identity at all. But this is in itself oppressive. It makes false assertions about the subjective experience of many people – people like me who do not feel as if we have a deep, internal sense of our own gender, and whose primary experience of gender is as a coercive, externally imposed set of constraints, rather than an essential aspect of our personal identity. It forces us to define ourselves in ways we don’t accept (and, as I’m now learning, if we refuse to define ourselves in this way, this is attributed to bigotry and a lack of empathy for trans people, rather than a reasonable rejection of what being cis entails). If “cisgender” were a description of a medical condition, characterised by an absence of sex dysphoria, then I would accept that I am cis. But if cisgender is a gender identity, which it appears to be, then I am not cis, because I do not have a gender identity. I am a woman. But it’s not because deep down, I feel like one. Because deep down, I just feel like a person.

Am I cisgender?
 
You may not have noticed, but there's been something of a campaign going on in the last couple of years to prevent a new Gender Recognition Act, a campaign that appears to have been successful, and involves many of those 'long standing feminist and gay rights campaigners' cosying up to proven anti-gay rights, anti-women's rights right wingers like David Davies. Every time an institution becomes trans-inclusive, this nexus of dubious forces cranks into gear to personally vilify the trans people involved. Given that these are the current places of fracture of the ongoing quest for trans rights, what exactly do you expect trans rights campaigners to focus on instead?

That's misrepresenting a lot of us who are sensitive to the various ways the GRA as people like you mean for it to go ahead will impact on women.
 
That's misrepresenting a lot of us who are sensitive to the various ways the GRA as people like you mean for it to go ahead will impact on women.

I'm not familiar with the details of this act. Use of toilets and changing rooms aside (because that comes up a lot), what are the other impacts?
 
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