19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Honestly, I think she must have nerves of steel just to leave the house in the morning. No doubt you can send her an application form nearer the time.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
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19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Fair enough, they're not a very nice lot on here. Although actually a sight better than some of the filth I've seen on Twitter and Facebook, not to mention serious flame wars on other forums.
There is though a bit of a difference between what you did/said as a full grown adult, if a bit naive, on a public forum and what a 14 year old might or might not have said on a short-lived Twitter account dubiously linked to her.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I highly doubt that. People drag stuff up from your past for any opportunity.
For example, I do not believe for one second had I been tweeting Race for Life life at age 17 Gamergate/MRA tropes that they are sexist for not letting men in the race, AND THEN likening it to the civil rights struggles of Rosa Parks (which is very searchable on Lily's twitter) that I would get a pass two years later.
Not here or anywhere. Nor would I be voted in as any kind of women's officer.
Neither would I get a pass for e-begging for my rent whilst holding office in any party, especially after a jump in followers due to having been on national television.
Lily is a teflon coated piss taker.
For example, I do not believe for one second had I been tweeting Race for Life life at age 17 Gamergate/MRA tropes that they are sexist for not letting men in the race, AND THEN likening it to the civil rights struggles of Rosa Parks (which is very searchable on Lily's twitter) that I would get a pass two years later.
Not here or anywhere. Nor would I be voted in as any kind of women's officer.
Neither would I get a pass for e-begging for my rent whilst holding office in any party, especially after a jump in followers due to having been on national television.
Lily is a teflon coated piss taker.
19force8
For the avoidance of faith
Time will tell I suppose.
trashpony
Hag
I will be sure to remind her
I'd never in a million years of attacked Jack or Laurie for something they might have said or done when they were 14 and I think you know that. I'd also never attack Laurie for being a woman, or queer, or Jack for being trans - which rather undermines the insinuation you seem to be trying to make.
I attacked Laurie and Jack for things they said, at length, often in the national press, and their role in undermining the anti-austerity movement. I don't really know what Lily thinks beyond wanting her gender identity to be respected. I think the Labour Party is still a dead end despite Corbyn and I'm suspicious of anyine who wants to be aan MP, I'm happy to attack her for that, with some reservations because I don't think the young Corbynites should be so easily dismissed, Labour is a very different party to the one it was in 2012. I also think the Race For Life thing is daft, but it's hardly career ending stuff and I'd still be inclined to say 18, as in legal adulthood, should be the point at which public figures become fair game.
I've got a kid the age Lily was when she might have made that tweet. I find it horrifying to think that something stupid he said to his friends now might be dredged up and used to try and destroy any career he might be building in five years time.
Treacle Toes
Time
If feminist Linda Bellos is seen as a risk, progressive politics has lost its way | Claire Heuchan
I have chosen these part specifically because I am interested in reading more about the seeming tension between some lesbian feminists and transwomen having a greater profile and inclusion. What is it exactly that TA's are advocating that LF's find particularly threatening? Has anyone read anything recently that goes into this a little more deeply?
I have chosen these part specifically because I am interested in reading more about the seeming tension between some lesbian feminists and transwomen having a greater profile and inclusion. What is it exactly that TA's are advocating that LF's find particularly threatening? Has anyone read anything recently that goes into this a little more deeply?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Why is Lily accused of being a 'perp' in that? I'm not really joining the fray on this, I just wondered about that. Has she been accused of actual violence or is it something to do with what she's said?Worth posting I think, from leading light in the movement against the GRA reforms Julia Long:
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
'Psychologically colonised'?
wow.
wow.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Her mere presence, I think. An act of psychological colonisation by a misogynist man.
She combines what comes across to me as a deep-seated hatred for transgender people with a 'wake up sheeple' attitude towards anyone who doesn't agree with her.
trashpony
Hag
That lesbians who don’t want dick are transphobic
Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Worth posting I think, from leading light in the movement against the GRA reforms Julia Long:
That's absolutely appalling. What is JL accusing LM of here?
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Very much a minority view, though. I don't know any trans women who believe this.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I have (just about
) enough humility to keep out of this, not just because I'm neither female nor trans, more because I haven't read enough or have enough of a grasp on the key events and players. But then you see stuff like this, a mixture of vanguardism and something that tends towards CT-ism as you say. Accusing people of being 'psychologically colonised' is appalling and shit politics. Solidarity. There's not only a lack of solidarity in the exchanges between trans activists and radical feminists, but that post also betrays a lack of solidarity that regards other feminists, regarded as intellectual inferiors. 
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I don't really think it's fair to use a tweet made at the age of 14 against her either, I'm not supporting that. I also have a child that age, and it's a good reminder to drum it into her that silly stuff you write on the internet can have ramifications you wouldn't predict. I do think she's using the 'oh I'm just a child' line herself NOW though, for example she tweeted about being busy at 'school' recently when she means university. Why would a 19 year old use that word if there was not some advantage to them in appearing younger than they really are? She constantly refers to herself as a girl or a teenage girl because it makes her appear more vulnerable. I dislike a lot of how she uses stereotypes to try and change how people interact with her. She tweeted a screenshot of a conversation between her and Ed Miliband where he had sent his sympathy for the flack she's undoubtedly getting and her reply said something like 'I just need to cry and eat ice cream and I'll be back to myself'. Because that's how girls cope with things, right? She just mostly makes me do massive rolleyes. She doesn't deserve a special pass because she's young any more than Jack Monroe or Laurie Penny did in their early twenties. I think she's just coming up against what it's really like to be a woman in the public eye. She doesn't get special treatment, she gets what any of us who expresses opinions publicly gets (a constant drip of abuse) and absolutely no quarter given for being young and silly. Welcome to womanhood, kid.
trashpony
Hag
Neither do I
spanglechick
High Empress of Dressing Up
Loads of kids call university "school" because that's what they call it in American film and tv.
Otoh, I used to call university "school" because I thought it was funny. For much the same reason as I have always call my various neglected gym bags "my PE kit".
I don't doubt LM is horribly irritating in that way typified by Goldsmiths Student Union types (where she'd barely merit comment) - but I'd reserve condemnation for her Race for Life nonsense, rather than looking for reasons to interpret every irritating turn of phrase as part of a Machiavellian agenda.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
She does get special treatment. As you are well aware, the thousands of other women who hold minor branch office in a single local Labour Party do not usually get individually demonised across the mainstream media. Such a position does not involve being significantly "in the public eye". She gets monstered because so called "gender critical feminists" fed her to their right wing media allies as outrage fodder.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
It's worth remembering in the context of this thread - where transphobia is repeatedly framed as "women asking questions" or alternatively as an issue of conflicts between lesbians and trans people - that transphobia as a wider social phenomenon is primarily associated with (cis) straight men.
That is obvious enough when it comes to incidents of physical assault or murders. But its also true in the broadest sense: every survey, both in the US and in the UK, reveals that cis women are notably less transphobic than cis men. They are more likely to believe that discrimination against trans people is wrong, more accepting of trans people's right to be treated as their preferred gender and less likely to feel uncomfortable with trans people using the same bathrooms. This should hardly be surprising. In the anglophone parts of the West, women are on average both more progressive on social issues and more generally left wing than men (this wasn't always the case but has been for some time now).
According to the annual British survey of social attitudes, only 13% of women feel uncomfortable sharing public bathrooms with trans women (of whom only 4% feel very uncomfortable). These numbers broadly come from the category of hardline social conservatives, e.g. women who are against gay rights, against sex before marriage etc. Transphobic "gender critical feminists" are not remotely representative of women or even of the transphobic minority of women. Neither are they remotely representative of lesbians - younger queer women in particular tend to be the most radically pro-trans people segment of the non trans population.
The gift of the TERF fringe to the discourse about trans people in Britain has been to help obscure the core issues at stake and to provide allegedly pro-woman arguments for the use of social conservatives. In countries where that fringe has no media footprint, the argument is almost always framed as social progressives versus reactionary social conservatives, a framing which much more accurately reflects actual underlying social attitudes and conflicts.
That is obvious enough when it comes to incidents of physical assault or murders. But its also true in the broadest sense: every survey, both in the US and in the UK, reveals that cis women are notably less transphobic than cis men. They are more likely to believe that discrimination against trans people is wrong, more accepting of trans people's right to be treated as their preferred gender and less likely to feel uncomfortable with trans people using the same bathrooms. This should hardly be surprising. In the anglophone parts of the West, women are on average both more progressive on social issues and more generally left wing than men (this wasn't always the case but has been for some time now).
According to the annual British survey of social attitudes, only 13% of women feel uncomfortable sharing public bathrooms with trans women (of whom only 4% feel very uncomfortable). These numbers broadly come from the category of hardline social conservatives, e.g. women who are against gay rights, against sex before marriage etc. Transphobic "gender critical feminists" are not remotely representative of women or even of the transphobic minority of women. Neither are they remotely representative of lesbians - younger queer women in particular tend to be the most radically pro-trans people segment of the non trans population.
The gift of the TERF fringe to the discourse about trans people in Britain has been to help obscure the core issues at stake and to provide allegedly pro-woman arguments for the use of social conservatives. In countries where that fringe has no media footprint, the argument is almost always framed as social progressives versus reactionary social conservatives, a framing which much more accurately reflects actual underlying social attitudes and conflicts.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Does a poster have to be a woman to cite figures about women (and men) in a survey? 
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Does a poster have to be a woman to cite figures about women (and men) in a survey?
Rascist!!
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
What kind of misogynist monster would assume that surveys of women's social attitudes might more accurately reflect women's social attitudes than the beliefs of some random dipshit on a forum who has looked into her own heart and seen inscribed there the true beliefs of all womankind?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Rascist!!
You have to remember that TERFs speak on behalf of all women and reference to the actual reported views of much larger numbers of women in representative studies is just masculine trickery.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Blimey.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Why is it a shock the attitudes of the Reclaim The Night mob? They are a honey pot for the bonkers Bruno wing of the Womens movement. Lily attending their jaunt and shout was hugely provokotive.
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