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Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

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Here's the job description.



d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/labourclp96/pages/1278/attachments/original/1445544799/Job_Description_-_CLP_Womens_Officer.pdf?1445544799

How is a 19 year old who only began transitioning to live as a woman a year ago going to even begin to be the best person for this role? Would a 19 year old born woman have even been considered?
My immediate reaction was that she'd have none of the life experiences necessary to make her able to advocate for women as she'd be coming from a place of basically not understanding. But the same could be said for any 19 year old, or anyone who hasn't had kids, or tried to have kids, or faced judgement for not having kids or any of the many female experiences that some women have had and some haven't.

Can any of us speak for all of us?

Reading a few articles I am actually mucch more struck by her staggering arrogance.... and it's that that makes me want her to fuck off, rather than how long she's been living as a woman. I have the same reaction to most* SPADs and others who go into party politics young- they don't have any life experience and they don't have the humility to listen to others with the life experience.


*not all- but the exceptions are few and far between
 
My immediate reaction was that she'd have none of the life experiences necessary to make her able to advocate for women as she'd be coming from a place of basically not understanding. But the same could be said for any 19 year old, or anyone who hasn't had kids, or tried to have kids, or faced judgement for not having kids or any of the many female experiences that some women have had and some haven't.

Can any of us speak for all of us?

Reading a few articles I am actually mucch more struck by her staggering arrogance.... and it's that that makes me want her to fuck off, rather than how long she's been living as a woman. I have the same reaction to most* SPADs and others who go into party politics young- they don't have any life experience and they don't have the humility to listen to others with the life experience.


*not all- but the exceptions are few and far between
Tldr; it does bother me but when I examine why I think it's other stuff that bothers me and also I may be prejudiced
 
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Trans women need access to rape and domestic violence services. Here’s why | Shon Faye

Trans people in Britain have recently been subjected to a media onslaught from all sides. The attack has largely been centred on proposed reform to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA), which would enable trans people to change their legal gender without a pathologising medical process. Disturbingly, this has been repackaged as a threat to women-only spaces – which could be “invaded” by any person born male who now identifies as a woman.

The idea seems to be that this is a question of the “competing rights” of trans and cis (non-trans) women. But this rhetoric of competition is a dead end – ultimately it isn’t a discussion or a debate, but an impasse. Its logical conclusion is a crushing ultimatum: trans rights or women’s rights. Only one can win.
 
Read this.
girls put off a career in engineering by inaccurate and negative perceptions
Sure, there's some of us fighting the norms, but the pressure to be 'normal' for young girls is colossal.

I know it was a bit of an aside to the main subject of this thread but since this is the last place I remember this subject coming up on u75, I hope nobody minds me mentioning the new Little Miss Inventor here.

Little Miss Inventor joins Mr Men range

The book blurb says "her brain is full of ideas, which she turns into extraordinary inventions in a shed at the bottom of her garden".

Those inventions include a backpack-snack-attack fridge for Mr Greedy and a chatter-natter hat for Little Miss Chatterbox - but she's stumped when asked to invent something for Mr Rude.

The book telling her story will be released on 8 March 2018 - tying in with International Women's Day and British Science Week.

Hargreaves, son of Mr Men and Little Miss creator Roger Hargreaves, said: "I always enjoy creating a brand new character for the series and it was fun coming up with lots of crazy inventions for Little Miss Inventor's home and silly ones for all her friends.

"It's also been nice to write a story that promotes a positive role model and to challenge a stereotype, if only in a small way."

Fans on Twitter were quick to applaud the new character - with coder Annie Parker writing: "Never have I wanted a book more!"

And the Geek Girl Riot radio show tweeted: "Little Miss Inventor is not the heroine we deserved, but the heroine we needed."
 
Another example that makes me depressed about sections of the media and extreme reactions/threats :(

Campaigner: I received rape and death threats after gender-neutral speech

The leading mental health campaigner Natasha Devon says she has been sent rape and death threats after a speech to headteachers in which she advocated the use of gender-neutral language in schools.

Writing in a column for the TES on Thursday, Devon disputed some of the media interpretations of her speech. She said she had never suggested that “if you’re speaking to an individual who you know is a girl and likes being a girl you shouldn’t be allowed to call that girl a ‘girl’.

“The main thrust of my argument was this … In making sweeping assumptions about gender, sexuality and identity we can create a culture in which anyone who deviates from the established archetypes feel excluded from the community and therefore doesn’t have this need fulfilled.

“One way we as educators could help to avoid this is by using gender-neutral language when addressing groups of pupils.” Several schools already do this, she said. City of London girls’ school, for example, asks speakers to refer to year groups as “students” rather than “girls” to be as inclusive as possible.

“Meanwhile, I received death and rape threats, messages questioning my sanity, calling me a ‘f**king idiot’, trying to insult me through the prism of questioning my own gender, calling me fat and ugly, suggesting I should be burned as a witch and, perhaps most offensively, claiming that I am single-handedly responsible for the current poor mental health of British children,” she wrote in her column.

“That is how the media, for all the magnificent work it does to raise awareness of mental health, shuts down some of the complex conversations we need to have in order to better understand it.”
 
Was reading today about the the first national survey of transgender in China, video too which does a bit of basic explaining for Chinese audiences where it's not been a big public talking point although there have been some prominent trans people some of who are mentioned:
 
“One way we as educators could help to avoid this is by using gender-neutral language when addressing groups of pupils.” Several schools already do this, she said. City of London girls’ school, for example, asks speakers to refer to year groups as “students” rather than “girls” to be as inclusive as possible.

A gender-segregated school wants to be as inclusive as possible?
 
Women’s concerns should not be minimised

NOV 2017 Saturday 25TH posted by Morning Star in Features

Many feminists and political activists feel they are being shut down for attempting to discuss gender issues, writes JO BARTOSCH

ONCE I was proud of my Labour Party card. I am member number L1608004 and, yes, I was one of the thousands who joined because Jeremy Corbyn seemed to signify a return to the principled values of social justice and fairness. Two years on and my membership card weighs heavily in my pocket.
I have been horrified to witness good women, lifelong activists, being attacked for trying to discuss the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.
At the time of writing, Linda Bellos has been reported to the Labour Party for comments she made at a public meeting, Jess Phillips is suffering a barrage of online abuse demanding she be re-educated because of a tweet she sent in support of feminist group A Woman’s Place, and after receiving a slew of accusations of “transphobia,” Anne Ruzylo has resigned her role as women’s officer in Bexhill and Battle amid accusations of bullying by a teenager who identifies as a woman.
The same teenager has taken up a post of women’s officer in the neighbouring constituency of Rochester and Strood. Incidentally, it should be noted that two of those allegedly targeted for harassment are lesbian. Many women now feel they are facing a purge for committing thought crime.
Sadly, this phenomenon is not just limited to the Labour Party — it now affects most of the “progressive” left. Women’s Equality Party (WEP) spokesperson for the policy on violence against women and girls Heather Brunskell-Evans is at present being investigated by the party’s executive committee for comments she made on BBC Radio 4’s The Moral Maze, where she urged caution and an evidence-based approach to treat children who consider themselves to be born in the wrong body.
The investigation of Brunskell-Evans arose from allegations made by trans women within the party itself that her comments “promoted prejudice against the transgender community.”
In response, the WEP wrote a public statement placed on its website to distance itself from her words.
What is so shocking about all of these instances is that the insights and experiences of passionate, intelligent and experienced women appear to have been dismissed as irrelevant.
As a feminist campaigner of many years, I know women who work in organisations from across the domestic and sexual violence sector; many are scared to openly raise questions about gender identity theory.
Doing so could lose them their jobs, or worse, jeopardise the minimal funding that charities they work for depend upon.
One such friend, who asked not to be named, said: “There are no safeguards in place to identify trans women who suffer from gender dysphoria from men who might wish to abuse access to women-only space.
“We have to make our service trans inclusive, but I know this will put the very vulnerable women we should be centring at risk.”
Ruzylo was the subject of numerous complaints by a small group because of her stance on and offline as an outspoken feminist.
Like myself and many others, Ruzylo considers the sex-stereotypes that inform gender to be harmful to women.
I don’t know Ruzylo in person, but I have a fair idea of the barriers she would have faced as a lesbian in the Labour Party.
To have had the strength to remain in the party demonstrates in itself that she was an asset, but apparently one without the kudos of a teenager who has identified as a woman for less time that I’ve had the shoes I’m wearing.
One in five women aged 16-59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. It is still the case that 85 per cent of rape remains unreported.
When women created the hashtag #metoo it was to demonstrate how widely our experience is minimised and dismissed by a patriarchal world. #metoo shone a spotlight on the misogyny within Parliament, with the bravery of women such as Bex Bailey forcing some serious questions to be asked about institutional sexism and cover-ups.
Women like Anna, Heather, Linda and Jess care deeply. They are not embarrassing bigots to be swept away; they are clever women, experienced women, women with integrity.
When I stop to think about it, I am shocked at how easily I went along with the idea that’s commonly expressed on the internet, that “trans women are women.”
I hadn’t really thought about the circular logic or the implications of the statement; I said it in response to a friend who was questioning the authenticity of Caitlyn Jenner’s womanhood.
Once I began to investigate how trans activists tend to behave online, and after the first few threats and smears for crossing outside the acceptable “lefty” rhetoric, I recognised the mainstream pro-trans movement for what it is; a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists who delight in telling women their concerns are irrelevant, hysterical and bigoted.
It is tragic that those with the power to change this on the left have chosen to believe young men with large social media followings rather than older women with considerably more experience of both politics and sexist silencing.
At the moment I have no pride in my party membership. A party that silences uppity women at the behest of angry misogynist keyboard warriors is not progressive. It seems when the trans activist dogs bark the progressive left jumps.
Rather than focusing on the men who actually hurt trans people, it is outspoken feminists who are offered up for sacrifice.
 
Women’s concerns should not be minimised

NOV 2017 Saturday 25TH posted by Morning Star in Features

Many feminists and political activists feel they are being shut down for attempting to discuss gender issues, writes JO BARTOSCH

ONCE I was proud of my Labour Party card. I am member number L1608004 and, yes, I was one of the thousands who joined because Jeremy Corbyn seemed to signify a return to the principled values of social justice and fairness. Two years on and my membership card weighs heavily in my pocket.
I have been horrified to witness good women, lifelong activists, being attacked for trying to discuss the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.
At the time of writing, Linda Bellos has been reported to the Labour Party for comments she made at a public meeting, Jess Phillips is suffering a barrage of online abuse demanding she be re-educated because of a tweet she sent in support of feminist group A Woman’s Place, and after receiving a slew of accusations of “transphobia,” Anne Ruzylo has resigned her role as women’s officer in Bexhill and Battle amid accusations of bullying by a teenager who identifies as a woman.
The same teenager has taken up a post of women’s officer in the neighbouring constituency of Rochester and Strood. Incidentally, it should be noted that two of those allegedly targeted for harassment are lesbian. Many women now feel they are facing a purge for committing thought crime.
Sadly, this phenomenon is not just limited to the Labour Party — it now affects most of the “progressive” left. Women’s Equality Party (WEP) spokesperson for the policy on violence against women and girls Heather Brunskell-Evans is at present being investigated by the party’s executive committee for comments she made on BBC Radio 4’s The Moral Maze, where she urged caution and an evidence-based approach to treat children who consider themselves to be born in the wrong body.
The investigation of Brunskell-Evans arose from allegations made by trans women within the party itself that her comments “promoted prejudice against the transgender community.”
In response, the WEP wrote a public statement placed on its website to distance itself from her words.
What is so shocking about all of these instances is that the insights and experiences of passionate, intelligent and experienced women appear to have been dismissed as irrelevant.
As a feminist campaigner of many years, I know women who work in organisations from across the domestic and sexual violence sector; many are scared to openly raise questions about gender identity theory.
Doing so could lose them their jobs, or worse, jeopardise the minimal funding that charities they work for depend upon.
One such friend, who asked not to be named, said: “There are no safeguards in place to identify trans women who suffer from gender dysphoria from men who might wish to abuse access to women-only space.
“We have to make our service trans inclusive, but I know this will put the very vulnerable women we should be centring at risk.”
Ruzylo was the subject of numerous complaints by a small group because of her stance on and offline as an outspoken feminist.
Like myself and many others, Ruzylo considers the sex-stereotypes that inform gender to be harmful to women.
I don’t know Ruzylo in person, but I have a fair idea of the barriers she would have faced as a lesbian in the Labour Party.
To have had the strength to remain in the party demonstrates in itself that she was an asset, but apparently one without the kudos of a teenager who has identified as a woman for less time that I’ve had the shoes I’m wearing.
One in five women aged 16-59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. It is still the case that 85 per cent of rape remains unreported.
When women created the hashtag #metoo it was to demonstrate how widely our experience is minimised and dismissed by a patriarchal world. #metoo shone a spotlight on the misogyny within Parliament, with the bravery of women such as Bex Bailey forcing some serious questions to be asked about institutional sexism and cover-ups.
Women like Anna, Heather, Linda and Jess care deeply. They are not embarrassing bigots to be swept away; they are clever women, experienced women, women with integrity.
When I stop to think about it, I am shocked at how easily I went along with the idea that’s commonly expressed on the internet, that “trans women are women.”
I hadn’t really thought about the circular logic or the implications of the statement; I said it in response to a friend who was questioning the authenticity of Caitlyn Jenner’s womanhood.
Once I began to investigate how trans activists tend to behave online, and after the first few threats and smears for crossing outside the acceptable “lefty” rhetoric, I recognised the mainstream pro-trans movement for what it is; a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists who delight in telling women their concerns are irrelevant, hysterical and bigoted.
It is tragic that those with the power to change this on the left have chosen to believe young men with large social media followings rather than older women with considerably more experience of both politics and sexist silencing.
At the moment I have no pride in my party membership. A party that silences uppity women at the behest of angry misogynist keyboard warriors is not progressive. It seems when the trans activist dogs bark the progressive left jumps.
Rather than focusing on the men who actually hurt trans people, it is outspoken feminists who are offered up for sacrifice.
While there’s interesting stuff here, it’s also pretty dismissive of those feminists who actively and strongly do take a trans inclusive line. We are “a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists”, apparently.

I’m not being led by anyone, and i dont see that saying “trans women are women” is misogyny. The term “clique” implies a minority, too, which isn’t my experience.

Are some trans activists arseholes? Totally. Is all trans-inclusivity activism problematic? I don’t see why.

But am i prepared to discuss something complex maturely with a person who has diminished and dismissed my views before we begin? Like fuck am i.
 
While there’s interesting stuff here, it’s also pretty dismissive of those feminists who actively and strongly do take a trans inclusive line. We are “a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists”, apparently.

I’m not being led by anyone, and i dont see that saying “trans women are women” is misogyny. The term “clique” implies a minority, too, which isn’t my experience.

Are some trans activists arseholes? Totally. Is all trans-inclusivity activism problematic? I don’t see why.

But am i prepared to discuss something complex maturely with a person who has diminished and dismissed my views before we begin? Like fuck am i.
That goes both ways with shouts of TERF at anyone who challenges trans-inclusive ideology
 
To have had the strength to remain in the party demonstrates in itself that she was an asset, but apparently one without the kudos of a teenager who has identified as a woman for less time that I’ve had the shoes I’m wearing.

When I stop to think about it, I am shocked at how easily I went along with the idea that’s commonly expressed on the internet, that “trans women are women.”

a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists who delight in telling women their concerns are irrelevant, hysterical and bigoted..

It seems when the trans activist dogs bark the progressive left jumps.
.

never takes long for the vicious, snidey bullsh*t to come out
 
Women’s concerns should not be minimised

NOV 2017 Saturday 25TH posted by Morning Star in Features

Many feminists and political activists feel they are being shut down for attempting to discuss gender issues, writes JO BARTOSCH

ONCE I was proud of my Labour Party card. I am member number L1608004 and, yes, I was one of the thousands who joined because Jeremy Corbyn seemed to signify a return to the principled values of social justice and fairness. Two years on and my membership card weighs heavily in my pocket.
I have been horrified to witness good women, lifelong activists, being attacked for trying to discuss the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.
At the time of writing, Linda Bellos has been reported to the Labour Party for comments she made at a public meeting, Jess Phillips is suffering a barrage of online abuse demanding she be re-educated because of a tweet she sent in support of feminist group A Woman’s Place, and after receiving a slew of accusations of “transphobia,” Anne Ruzylo has resigned her role as women’s officer in Bexhill and Battle amid accusations of bullying by a teenager who identifies as a woman.
The same teenager has taken up a post of women’s officer in the neighbouring constituency of Rochester and Strood. Incidentally, it should be noted that two of those allegedly targeted for harassment are lesbian. Many women now feel they are facing a purge for committing thought crime.
Sadly, this phenomenon is not just limited to the Labour Party — it now affects most of the “progressive” left. Women’s Equality Party (WEP) spokesperson for the policy on violence against women and girls Heather Brunskell-Evans is at present being investigated by the party’s executive committee for comments she made on BBC Radio 4’s The Moral Maze, where she urged caution and an evidence-based approach to treat children who consider themselves to be born in the wrong body.
The investigation of Brunskell-Evans arose from allegations made by trans women within the party itself that her comments “promoted prejudice against the transgender community.”
In response, the WEP wrote a public statement placed on its website to distance itself from her words.
What is so shocking about all of these instances is that the insights and experiences of passionate, intelligent and experienced women appear to have been dismissed as irrelevant.
As a feminist campaigner of many years, I know women who work in organisations from across the domestic and sexual violence sector; many are scared to openly raise questions about gender identity theory.
Doing so could lose them their jobs, or worse, jeopardise the minimal funding that charities they work for depend upon.
One such friend, who asked not to be named, said: “There are no safeguards in place to identify trans women who suffer from gender dysphoria from men who might wish to abuse access to women-only space.
“We have to make our service trans inclusive, but I know this will put the very vulnerable women we should be centring at risk.”
Ruzylo was the subject of numerous complaints by a small group because of her stance on and offline as an outspoken feminist.
Like myself and many others, Ruzylo considers the sex-stereotypes that inform gender to be harmful to women.
I don’t know Ruzylo in person, but I have a fair idea of the barriers she would have faced as a lesbian in the Labour Party.
To have had the strength to remain in the party demonstrates in itself that she was an asset, but apparently one without the kudos of a teenager who has identified as a woman for less time that I’ve had the shoes I’m wearing.
One in five women aged 16-59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. It is still the case that 85 per cent of rape remains unreported.
When women created the hashtag #metoo it was to demonstrate how widely our experience is minimised and dismissed by a patriarchal world. #metoo shone a spotlight on the misogyny within Parliament, with the bravery of women such as Bex Bailey forcing some serious questions to be asked about institutional sexism and cover-ups.
Women like Anna, Heather, Linda and Jess care deeply. They are not embarrassing bigots to be swept away; they are clever women, experienced women, women with integrity.
When I stop to think about it, I am shocked at how easily I went along with the idea that’s commonly expressed on the internet, that “trans women are women.”
I hadn’t really thought about the circular logic or the implications of the statement; I said it in response to a friend who was questioning the authenticity of Caitlyn Jenner’s womanhood.
Once I began to investigate how trans activists tend to behave online, and after the first few threats and smears for crossing outside the acceptable “lefty” rhetoric, I recognised the mainstream pro-trans movement for what it is; a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists who delight in telling women their concerns are irrelevant, hysterical and bigoted.
It is tragic that those with the power to change this on the left have chosen to believe young men with large social media followings rather than older women with considerably more experience of both politics and sexist silencing.
At the moment I have no pride in my party membership. A party that silences uppity women at the behest of angry misogynist keyboard warriors is not progressive. It seems when the trans activist dogs bark the progressive left jumps.
Rather than focusing on the men who actually hurt trans people, it is outspoken feminists who are offered up for sacrifice.


LGBT+ TRADE UNIONISTS AND ALLIES STATEMENT ON THE GENDER RECOGNITION ACT
 
Women’s concerns should not be minimised

NOV 2017 Saturday 25TH posted by Morning Star in Features

Many feminists and political activists feel they are being shut down for attempting to discuss gender issues, writes JO BARTOSCH

ONCE I was proud of my Labour Party card. I am member number L1608004 and, yes, I was one of the thousands who joined because Jeremy Corbyn seemed to signify a return to the principled values of social justice and fairness. Two years on and my membership card weighs heavily in my pocket.
I have been horrified to witness good women, lifelong activists, being attacked for trying to discuss the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.
At the time of writing, Linda Bellos has been reported to the Labour Party for comments she made at a public meeting, Jess Phillips is suffering a barrage of online abuse demanding she be re-educated because of a tweet she sent in support of feminist group A Woman’s Place, and after receiving a slew of accusations of “transphobia,” Anne Ruzylo has resigned her role as women’s officer in Bexhill and Battle amid accusations of bullying by a teenager who identifies as a woman.
The same teenager has taken up a post of women’s officer in the neighbouring constituency of Rochester and Strood. Incidentally, it should be noted that two of those allegedly targeted for harassment are lesbian. Many women now feel they are facing a purge for committing thought crime.
Sadly, this phenomenon is not just limited to the Labour Party — it now affects most of the “progressive” left. Women’s Equality Party (WEP) spokesperson for the policy on violence against women and girls Heather Brunskell-Evans is at present being investigated by the party’s executive committee for comments she made on BBC Radio 4’s The Moral Maze, where she urged caution and an evidence-based approach to treat children who consider themselves to be born in the wrong body.
The investigation of Brunskell-Evans arose from allegations made by trans women within the party itself that her comments “promoted prejudice against the transgender community.”
In response, the WEP wrote a public statement placed on its website to distance itself from her words.
What is so shocking about all of these instances is that the insights and experiences of passionate, intelligent and experienced women appear to have been dismissed as irrelevant.
As a feminist campaigner of many years, I know women who work in organisations from across the domestic and sexual violence sector; many are scared to openly raise questions about gender identity theory.
Doing so could lose them their jobs, or worse, jeopardise the minimal funding that charities they work for depend upon.
One such friend, who asked not to be named, said: “There are no safeguards in place to identify trans women who suffer from gender dysphoria from men who might wish to abuse access to women-only space.
“We have to make our service trans inclusive, but I know this will put the very vulnerable women we should be centring at risk.”
Ruzylo was the subject of numerous complaints by a small group because of her stance on and offline as an outspoken feminist.
Like myself and many others, Ruzylo considers the sex-stereotypes that inform gender to be harmful to women.
I don’t know Ruzylo in person, but I have a fair idea of the barriers she would have faced as a lesbian in the Labour Party.
To have had the strength to remain in the party demonstrates in itself that she was an asset, but apparently one without the kudos of a teenager who has identified as a woman for less time that I’ve had the shoes I’m wearing.
One in five women aged 16-59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. It is still the case that 85 per cent of rape remains unreported.
When women created the hashtag #metoo it was to demonstrate how widely our experience is minimised and dismissed by a patriarchal world. #metoo shone a spotlight on the misogyny within Parliament, with the bravery of women such as Bex Bailey forcing some serious questions to be asked about institutional sexism and cover-ups.
Women like Anna, Heather, Linda and Jess care deeply. They are not embarrassing bigots to be swept away; they are clever women, experienced women, women with integrity.
When I stop to think about it, I am shocked at how easily I went along with the idea that’s commonly expressed on the internet, that “trans women are women.”
I hadn’t really thought about the circular logic or the implications of the statement; I said it in response to a friend who was questioning the authenticity of Caitlyn Jenner’s womanhood.
Once I began to investigate how trans activists tend to behave online, and after the first few threats and smears for crossing outside the acceptable “lefty” rhetoric, I recognised the mainstream pro-trans movement for what it is; a clique of well-meaning liberals led by misogynists who delight in telling women their concerns are irrelevant, hysterical and bigoted.
It is tragic that those with the power to change this on the left have chosen to believe young men with large social media followings rather than older women with considerably more experience of both politics and sexist silencing.
At the moment I have no pride in my party membership. A party that silences uppity women at the behest of angry misogynist keyboard warriors is not progressive. It seems when the trans activist dogs bark the progressive left jumps.
Rather than focusing on the men who actually hurt trans people, it is outspoken feminists who are offered up for sacrifice.

Am I reading this right? She appears to be calling the trans women she disagrees with misogynist men. It's pretty much the same crap Maria Mac came out with, complete with the deliberate misgendering for effect.

Not helpful.
 
:facepalm:She is a professional fuckwit then. She proper made my blood boil ...then I cringed at how sociopathic she seemed ...so fake, so arghhh. Not had such a visceral reaction to a stranger in a long time.

No surprise that the teacher she appeared with is taking his school to an employment tribunal. It was clear at the time that this case was going to be used to make an ideological argument and thats even clearer now we have this stuff from the complete arsehole wing of evangelical christian bigotry.

Mr Sutcliffe claims the school has "systematically and maliciously" breached his rights and he had left his job as it had made it impossible for him to continue working there.

In a letter to the head teacher he wrote: "As a Christian, I do not share your belief in the ideology of transgenderism.

"I do not believe that young children should be encouraged to self-select a 'gender' which may be different from their biological sex.

"Or that everyone at school should adjust their behaviour to accommodate such a 'transition'; or that people should be punished for lack of enthusiasm about it."

The maths teacher, who is also a pastor at the Christ Revelation church in Oxford, said he tried to balance his beliefs with the need to treat the pupil sensitively.

'Misgendering' teacher to sue school
 
One in five women aged 16-59 has experienced some form of sexual violence since the age of 16. It is still the case that 85 per cent of rape remains unreported.
When women created the hashtag #metoo it was to demonstrate how widely our experience is minimised and dismissed by a patriarchal world. #metoo shone a spotlight on the misogyny within Parliament, with the bravery of women such as Bex Bailey forcing some serious questions to be asked about institutional sexism and cover-ups.

Yes this is all true, but what does it have to do with the subject of the rest of the piece? This whole paragraph seems to have been dropped in just to insinuate a link between acceptance of transgender people and sexual assault against women.

Elsewhere the author quotes someone saying that trans-inclusivity puts other women at risk, but again there's no evidential link between the two things.

This idea of abusive men pretending to be trans women in order to abuse others seems to be at the heart of so much anti-trans sentiment. I wonder then why people dance around it, keep it at arms length. That's the sort of thing I can see myself doing if I was defending a position based on a premise I couldn't back up.

Society is patriarchal yes, and systematically abusive to women. Why then would any man bother to pretend to be a trans woman in order to abuse others? The sad fact is that he's already got more than enough resources at his disposal if that's what he wants to do.
 
Elsewhere the author quotes someone saying that trans-inclusivity puts other women at risk, but again there's no evidential link between the two things.

This idea of abusive men pretending to be trans women in order to abuse others seems to be at the heart of so much anti-trans sentiment. I wonder then why people dance around it, keep it at arms length. That's the sort of thing I can see myself doing if I was defending a position based on a premise I couldn't back up.

Society is patriarchal yes, and systematically abusive to women. Why then would any man bother to pretend to be a trans woman in order to abuse others? The sad fact is that he's already got more than enough resources at his disposal if that's what he wants to do.

The case of Christopher Hambrook in Canada is one in which an abusive man posed as a trans woman, to gain access to women's shelters, wherein he sexually abused women. It's silly (and damaging to credibility) to pretend it hasn't happened, or that we can be sure it won't happen again. It'd be better to be honest about it. To say, yes, it's a risk, but one so incredibly small that it's outweighed by the greater harm caused by trans exclusion. Albeit you ought not to be surprised that some feminists will disagree with you deprioritising women's safety in favour of the safety of those born male and socialised as boys then men.
 
The case of Christopher Hambrook in Canada is one in which an abusive man posed as a trans woman, to gain access to women's shelters, wherein he sexually abused women. It's silly (and damaging to credibility) to pretend it hasn't happened, or that we can be sure it won't happen again. It'd be better to be honest about it. To say, yes, it's a risk, but one so incredibly small that it's outweighed by the greater harm caused by trans exclusion. Albeit you ought not to be surprised that some feminists will disagree with you deprioritising women's safety in favour of the safety of those born male and socialised as boys then men.

I'm not at all surprised that people feel differently to me. And I'm a bloke, there's no reason anyone should give shit what I think about women's only spaces anyway. But if we're going to get anywhere with this people need to be honest about what they think and coherent about why they think it.

There's a fundamental impasse at the heart of all this, in that some people don't include certain others in the category of those entitled to an opinion. If that's their view, they'll have to do better at defending it. They'll have to make the case that there is a real risk from including trans women in certain spaces, and that it outweighs the harm done if they are excluded. If they consider harm done to trans women less important than harm done to cis women, they will need to be honest about that.
 
I'm not at all surprised that people feel differently to me. And I'm a bloke, there's no reason anyone should give shit what I think about women's only spaces anyway. But if we're going to get anywhere with this people need to be honest about what they think and coherent about why they think it.

There's a fundamental impasse at the heart of all this, in that some people don't include certain others in the category of those entitled to an opinion. If that's their view, they'll have to do better at defending it. They'll have to make the case that there is a real risk from including trans women in certain spaces, and that it outweighs the harm done if they are excluded. If they consider harm done to trans women less important than harm done to cis women, they will need to be honest about that.

All other possibilities aside, there’s the threat of harm for women for the reasons that generated this thread. That merely not agreeing with Trans politics can lead to them being physically assaulted.
 
I'm not at all surprised that people feel differently to me. And I'm a bloke, there's no reason anyone should give shit what I think about women's only spaces anyway. But if we're going to get anywhere with this people need to be honest about what they think and coherent about why they think it.

There's a fundamental impasse at the heart of all this, in that some people don't include certain others in the category of those entitled to an opinion. If that's their view, they'll have to do better at defending it. They'll have to make the case that there is a real risk from including trans women in certain spaces, and that it outweighs the harm done if they are excluded. If they consider harm done to trans women less important than harm done to cis women, they will need to be honest about that.

Aren't you conflating two things there, though? Whether, philosophically, trans women are women; and, whether, on a compassionate basis, they ought to be considered/treated as such. For many, the second question doesn't come into play; for a lot of those who consider 'woman' to mean adult human born into the female sex, that ends the discussion about whether or not trans women should have access to women's spaces (without ever needing to address the balance of harms). It strikes me that absent any compelling philosophical reason to consider trans women to be women, simply repeating the mantra that they are is unhelpful. A better approach would be to focus on the other aspect i.e. that the net harm (to people regardless of gender) is increased by exclusion, and to focus on building solidarity on the basis of what cis and trans women do have in common e.g. being disadvantaged by patriarchy. And why tactics that undermine compassion and solidarity (which seem to increasing) are likely to be counter-productive.
 
A better approach would be to focus on the other aspect i.e. that the net harm (to people regardless of gender) is increased by exclusion, and to focus on building solidarity on the basis of what cis and trans women do have in common e.g. being disadvantaged by patriarchy. And why tactics that undermine compassion and solidarity (which seem to increasing) are likely to be counter-productive.

You're not going to reach that sort of common ground with people who think trans identity is in and of itself an act of violence against women. If you genuinely think someone is attacking you just by existing, you're not going to care much about whether or not they come to harm.

And if people with less extreme anti-trans ideas are willing to grudgingly make compromises for harm reductiin reasons, that will create tensions that are always going to be expressed in some form or other.
 
All other possibilities aside, there’s the threat of harm for women for the reasons that generated this thread. That merely not agreeing with Trans politics can lead to them being physically assaulted.

What about the harm from hearing people publically deny your right to exist? We've done all this already, read the thread.
 
You're not going to reach that sort of common ground with people who think trans identity is in and of itself an act of violence against women. If you genuinely think someone is attacking you just by existing, you're not going to care much about whether or not they come to harm.

And if people with less extreme anti-trans ideas are willing to grudgingly make compromises for harm reductiin reasons, that will create tensions that are always going to be expressed in some form or other.

The first group are a tiny (albeit vocal) minority. Probably not worth too much attention.

I'm not sure I accept your characterisation of the second group. I reckon that, if they had cause to give it any thought, most people would be happy to treat trans people as they'd prefer to be treated, on the basis of harm minimisation, even if, philosophically, they don't necessarily believe that trans women are women. I don't think that would necessarily be 'grudgingly'. But, to reach them, you'd have to engage positively with their initial scepticism.
 
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