Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[HoratioCuthbert]

I'd agree, which is why the more I think about it, the more the EDL analogy works for me.

And most trans-exclusionary people aren't radfems, which is why I've mostly long since stopped using the acronym. Like the typical edl type, they are people suffering systemic oppression (patriarchal / class-based) who are concerned about the ways in which another oppressed group (trans women / Muslims) might make their oppression worse.

And in organising against this, they end up engaging with some utter cunts (suck my girl dick types / Islamist extremists) and tarring everyone with the same brush, while focusing on a small number of extreme issues (prison populations / hate preachers) which - while they need sorting, don't need some kind of mass movement that tends to demonise the whole group (trans people / Muslims), and at worst, is responsible for its own hate crime and scumbaggery.

Very well put, the same comparisons have occurred to me a few times.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

....

Yes, the post still makes sense. She meanm that's the only people TERFS are engaging with.

 

[TopCat]

Yes, the post still makes sense. She meanm that's the only people TERFS are engaging with.

Yeah I get it.

 

[spanglechick]

I don't know what your comment was, TC...?

 

[TopCat]

I don't know what your comment was, TC...?

I got the wrong end of the stick.

 

[kabbes]

Yep, and "just asking questions" as a dog whistle technique is also used by more people than neo nazis. And neo nazis aren't the subject of this thread, are they?

What are you going talking about. YOU were the one bringing up neo-nazis! My very point is that the debating tactics used by neo-nazis are irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Spymaster]

And in organising against this, they end up engaging with some utter cunts (suck my girl dick types / Islamist extremists) and tarring everyone with the same brush, while focusing on a small number of extreme issues (prison populations / hate preachers) which - while they need sorting, don't need some kind of mass movement that tends to demonise the whole group (trans people / Muslims), and at worst, is responsible for its own hate crime and scumbaggery.

And that works in reverse too so it seems reasonably clear that the twat who punched the bookfair woman should indeed be prosecuted and not supported.

 

[spanglechick]

And that works in reverse too so it seems reasonably clear that the twat who punched the bookfair woman should indeed be prosecuted.

You may be right.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

What are you going talking about. YOU were the one bringing up neo-nazis! My very point is that the debating tactics used by neo-nazis are irrelevant to this discussion.

"Used by more people than Neo Nazis"

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Yeah I get it.

Somehow the edit appeared even in my reply before I seen it

 

[TopCat]

And that works in reverse too so it seems reasonably clear that the twat who punched the bookfair woman should indeed be prosecuted and not supported.

CW are supporting one of their own. Still don't make her right.

 

[Sea Star]

Aren't all terfs necessarily women?

Depends if you think only women can be feminists. For me if someone holds mostly TERF opinions I treat them as a TERF. Which is to say I ignore them.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I don’t support the prosecution.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Depends if you think only women can be feminists. For me if someone holds mostly TERF opinions I treat them as a TERF. Which is to say I ignore them.

I’m not a feminist but if I was I wouldn’t be a 4th wave or liberal one.

 

[Sea Star]

People you label terf are on the whole women not men.

Crap. How do you know who I label terf?

 

[DotCommunist]

What are you going talking about. YOU were the one bringing up neo-nazis! My very point is that the debating tactics used by neo-nazis are irrelevant to this discussion.

there is though a difference between questioning to draw out anothers position and expose the flaws in it, and throwing questions out on the 'make the sonofabitch deny it' politicised usage. Alex Jones 'I'm just asking the questions here' sort of thing- you must be able to see that its not as simple as honest inquiry sometimes.

 

[TopCat]

I’m not a feminist but if I was I wouldn’t be 4th wave or liberal one.

I'm a womans libber. Bit more interested in lives of working class women than concerned with equality of salary for female BBC producers and presenters and details of their skin care regimes.

 

[TopCat]

Crap. How do you know who I label terf?

By reading your posts?

 

[kabbes]

there is though a difference between questioning to draw out anothers position and expose the flaws in it, and throwing questions out on the 'make the sonofabitch deny it' politicised usage. Alex Jones 'I'm just asking the questions here' sort of thing- you must be able to see that its not as simple as honest inquiry sometimes.

What’s that got to go with this thread? Unless you’re saying that’s what people have been doing here?

 

[TopCat]

What’s that got to go with this thread? Unless you’re saying that’s what people have been doing here?

Nigel has been doing this. A practised party hack that one.

 

[kabbes]

Nigel has been doing this. A practised party hack that one.

To be fair, that is true. Although I suspect that isn’t who either mojo or dirty was referring to.

 

[smokedout]

Its sunny outside and i don't want to spend the whole day angry. If you want to support the she wolf's right to punch people who they suspect of harbouring thoughts that they disagree with go ahead, you can send money to the crowdfunder to help pay their fine if there is one.

Just as a technical point this post is in breach of sub judice rules. Anything which offers an opinion on the guilt or innocence of the defendent or on disputed facts could be seen as contempt of court.

 

[Spymaster]

Just as a technical point this post is in breach of sub judice rules. Anything which offers an opinion on the guilt or innocence of the defendent or on disputed facts could be seen as contempt of court.

Well that's these boards fucked then, on just about every major court case that's hit the news over the last couple of decades.

 

[spanglechick]

Depends if you think only women can be feminists. For me if someone holds mostly TERF opinions I treat them as a TERF. Which is to say I ignore them.

Men can be feminists, but not Rad Fems. It's one of the things that makes feminism radical: male exclusion.

 

[DotCommunist]

What’s that got to go with this thread? Unless you’re saying that’s what people have been doing here?

no, I was pointing it out that it can be used either way where it seemed to me that you were talking only of one, benevolent use of questioning. Apols if I got you wrong there.

To be fair, that is true. Although I suspect that isn’t who either mojo or dirty was referring to.

and now you've autocorrected me into 'dirty'. *sigh* it was ever my fate.

 

[Teaboy]

and now you've autocorrected me into 'dirty'. *sigh* it was ever my fate.

I think it's going to stick.

 

[Sea Star]

Men can be feminists, but not Rad Fems. It's one of the things that makes feminism radical: male exclusion.

But they can still hold the views which is where I was coming from on this.

ETA - I'm not sure it's as clear cut as you imply. There are lots of different opinions out there and I just don't have time to try to make sense of it all.

Also I'm pretty sure that is not the reason why radical feminism is radical even though I do know men are often excluded from rad fem communities, it isn't always the case.

 

[smokedout]

Well that's these boards fucked then on just about every major court case that's hit the news over the last couple of decades.

To be fair people often get pulled up on here for declaring someones guilt before a trial has even taken place. Although like playing sport and humane prisons, perhaps the right to a fair trial is just something trans women will have to forego to protect the rights of all real women.

 

[spanglechick]

But they can still hold the views which is where I was coming from on this.

They can be trans exclusionary- but so are lots of people who aren't even feminist. It's nonsensical to call them all terfs.

 

[TopCat]

To be fair people often get pulled up on here for declaring someones guilt before a trial has even taken place. Although like playing sport and humane prisons, perhaps the right to a fair trial is just something trans women will have to forego to protect the rights of all real women.

Nigel has been the biggest hack on this thread but you are a shining second.