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Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

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Sorry for the delay. I nearly missed my train.
Ok sorry. Your question as put below
Is so disingenuous as a comparison ‘a scuffle engendered by their racist behaviour’ that I think it’s totally irrelevant to this case. But in a situation as you describe, where the racist caused the whole ruckus, I’d probably side with the puncher. That is not the case here. And again please define transphobe. If a transphobe is anyone who is not sincerely totally convinced that saying ‘I’m a woman’ makes it so with no further questions then there must be an awful lot of people need punching.
Thank you. I'll assume then that your answer to the other two cases would be similar.

I notice you don't need definitions of racism, sexism or homophobia. Curious that.

I don't have a handy definition of transphobia. If you don't have time to google a definition can I suggest we just go with an analogue of the aforementioned prejudices, and ignore your insinuation that it's something as trivial as you describe.

I happen to believe that only a small number of the "terfs" we hear of are vicious and malicious bigots some of whom actually represent a real threat to trans people. Their willingness to get into bed with the worst elements of the Tory party and the MSM does immense damage already. The rest are perhaps not hostile to trans people and might even change their position over time if the imagined outcomes being touted fail to materialise.

This is much the same way that homophobia has declined over the last fifty years. Though it's still way too pervasive.

As to this particular case. I don't approve of "punching terfs" or more generally of any intra-left violence*. Nor do I support prosecuting the people responsible for anything short of ABH. And even then it will depend on the circumstances.

As to the tweets you quoted. They're terrible aren't they? I'm sure you're aware that similar and worse things have been said by terfs. That doesn't justify rape threats, which are inexcusable.

However, on the subject of Twitter, I'd say two things. There are trolls. And some people seem to treat tweeting like a rant in the pub at eleven o'clock on a Saturday night - you say the first thing that comes into your head and next morning hope anybody who remembers will write it off as the booze talking.
 
Ok sorry. Your question as put below
Is so disingenuous as a comparison ‘a scuffle engendered by their racist behaviour’ that I think it’s totally irrelevant to this case. But in a situation as you describe, where the racist caused the whole ruckus, I’d probably side with the puncher. That is not the case here. And again please define transphobe. If a transphobe is anyone who is not sincerely totally convinced that saying ‘I’m a woman’ makes it so with no further questions then there must be an awful lot of people need punching.
You'd probably side with the person smacking a racist? Would it depend, perhaps, on what they were wearing, that that might influence your decision? Shameful, bimble, utterly shameful.
 
Sorry for the delay. I nearly missed my train.

Thank you. I'll assume then that your answer to the other two cases would be similar.

I notice you don't need definitions of racism, sexism or homophobia. Curious that.

I don't have a handy definition of transphobia. If you don't have time to google a definition can I suggest we just go with an analogue of the aforementioned prejudices, and ignore your insinuation that it's something as trivial as you describe.

I happen to believe that only a small number of the "terfs" we hear of are vicious and malicious bigots some of whom actually represent a real threat to trans people. Their willingness to get into bed with the worst elements of the Tory party and the MSM does immense damage already. The rest are perhaps not hostile to trans people and might even change their position over time if the imagined outcomes being touted fail to materialise.

This is much the same way that homophobia has declined over the last fifty years. Though it's still way too pervasive.

As to this particular case. I don't approve of "punching terfs" or more generally of any intra-left violence*. Nor do I support prosecuting the people responsible for anything short of ABH. And even then it will depend on the circumstances.

As to the tweets you quoted. They're terrible aren't they? I'm sure you're aware that similar and worse things have been said by terfs. That doesn't justify rape threats, which are inexcusable.

However, on the subject of Twitter, I'd say two things. There are trolls. And some people seem to treat tweeting like a rant in the pub at eleven o'clock on a Saturday night - you say the first thing that comes into your head and next morning hope anybody who remembers will write it off as the booze talking.
Thanks for acknowledging that not all terfs are 'vicious malicious bigots who represent a real threat to trans people'. That is appreciated.
Just on the twitter thing, you say ''I'm sure you're aware that similar and worse things have been said by terfs." I may have missed them but have never once seen a terf threaten or condone violence against trans people, whilst there are hundreds of posts like the few i picked out. I don't like the race to the bottom but this is imo just not true.
 

The decision by CW to offer unconditional support to the people who attacked Helen Steel at The Bookfair took such a short time that it begged questions as to the current size of the group and the decision making processes involved.
Whatever the process however, it remains a dunderhead decision of particular note.
 
Thanks for acknowledging that not all terfs are 'vicious malicious bigots who represent a real threat to trans people'. That is appreciated.
Just on the twitter thing, you say ''I'm sure you're aware that similar and worse things have been said by terfs." I may have missed them but have never once seen a terf threaten or condone violence against trans people, whilst there are hundreds of posts like the few i picked out. I don't like the race to the bottom but this is imo just not true.
Really?

In the first half of this thread there are accounts of plans to murder a trans-woman for getting on a stage.

Not hot air on Twitter, but actual and credible threats to murder.

You read those didn't you? You can't have because you've "never once seen a terf threaten or condone violence against trans people."

E2A And what do you think attempts to exclude transwomen from DV shelters amount to? Or to put them in men's prisons?
 
I missed that murder plot and not about to scroll back to the first half of the thread. I’m not lying about never having seen terfs on Twitter condoning or threatening violence against trans people. Punch a trans person is not a meme.
 
I missed that murder plot and not about to scroll back to the first half of the thread. I’m not lying about never having seen terfs on Twitter condoning or threatening violence against trans people. Punch a trans person is not a meme.
Hmmm, selective reading much?

BTW, trains arriving now so no replies from me until after the pubs close tonight and then only if I can remember my passwords :rolleyes:
 
I missed that murder plot and not about to scroll back to the first half of the thread. I’m not lying about never having seen terfs on Twitter condoning or threatening violence against trans people. Punch a trans person is not a meme.
No, but trying to induce suicide, outing to families, employers, etc. and petitioning to have trans women thrown out of shelters and hospitals very much is a thing.
 
The decision by CW to offer unconditional support to the people who attacked Helen Steel at The Bookfair took such a short time that it begged questions as to the current size of the group and the decision making processes involved.
Whatever the process however, it remains a dunderhead decision of particular note.
Wow, how much do you hate trans people, eh?
 
The decision by CW to offer unconditional support to the people who attacked Helen Steel at The Bookfair took such a short time that it begged questions as to the current size of the group and the decision making processes involved.
Whatever the process however, it remains a dunderhead decision of particular note.

My understanding is that one of the key trans activists in all this is involved with CW.
 
I see that. I was going to go on the page and start scrolling down for ages, now I needn't bother :)
It goes back to my point about processes and prouncements. Anarchists issuing statements on behalf of others with limited or no consultation. CW did it, the Anarchist aFederation did it. At least Freedom had a debate and openly described their position as a majority decision.
 
Really?

In the first half of this thread there are accounts of plans to murder a trans-woman for getting on a stage.

Not hot air on Twitter, but actual and credible threats to murder.

You read those didn't you? You can't have because you've "never once seen a terf threaten or condone violence against trans people."

E2A And what do you think attempts to exclude transwomen from DV shelters amount to? Or to put them in men's prisons?
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It isn’t me throwing transphobe/terf about with gay abandon as has happened on this very thread. Presumably all those who’ve been called it are fair game?

Venice Allan organised that meeting and spoke. If she can't be described as transphobic then who can?

Of course not everyone there might have similar views as hers, although Julie Long who also spoke certainly does. But that could apply to any group of organised bigots.

And I don't think what is reported to have happened was really the best way forward, I don't support it myself, but then I've knocked a camera out of someone's hands at a demo after having it stuck in my face repeatedly in a tense moment. We don't know what happened outside of the tape we've seen, or what was being said to the trans-activists (and we probably shouldn't speculate until the case is concluded). But this is certainly not as cut and dry as the mob of baying blokes violently assaults granny for wanting to go to a completely innocent meeting of reasonable women's voices line that is being pursued by some.
 
It goes back to my point about processes and prouncements. Anarchists issuing statements on behalf of others with limited or no consultation. CW did it, the Anarchist aFederation did it. At least Freedom had a debate and openly described their position as a majority decision.
They took the statement down as members of CW were furious about it and the actual incident and the cuntish banner burning etc.
 
It looked like people winding each other up followed by an inevitable scuffle, the person with the camera walked right up to the group with the camera in hand arms outstretched trying to get the camera right in their face which is obviously more of an antagonistic move than actually trying to get a clear picture. I can't see how you can draw many conclusions watching it other than maybe the photographer should have tried using the zoom function. Twats vs twats.
 
Are no platform violence focused tactics acceptable in trans politics?

I think not and I think some evilly motivated cunts have been stirring shit like crazy. Many connected with the Sisters Uncut group.
 
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