Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[mojo pixy]

To state the obvious, it really does depend on circumstance. Being a racist does not make it open season for anybody to hit you.

I actually think it does. If someone is spouting racist views, won't modify or back down or apologise, and when challenged verbally simply doubles down, I don't think it's unacceptable to resort to violence to shut them up or chase them away. I feel similar about homophobia and sexism. Transphobia is too new in my world to feel comfortable taking it that far, and I'd have trouble if the prejudiced person was female and the violence was threatened by someone male but equally, I don't think it's ok for any woman to get a free prejudice pass just because violence against women is also bad. If you open your mouth to spout prejudice, whoever you are, you must accept that you may encounter physical resistance. It comes with that particular territory.

 

[19force8]

I was addressing the points you made in post #8681

But failing to answer a simple question.

Don’t forget that an upping of the ante isn’t one way traffic.

You have to match the ante before you can raise the stakes.

You haven't done either.

 

[weepiper]

So, to recap: it's ok to punch a woman if she says being a woman is more than just feeling 'like a woman'.

 

[bimble]

Its sunny outside and i don't want to spend the whole day angry. If you want to support the she wolf's right to punch people who they suspect of harbouring thoughts that they disagree with go ahead, you can send money to the crowdfunder to help pay their fine if there is one.

 

[19force8]

So, to recap: it's ok to punch a woman if she says being a woman is more than just feeling 'like a woman'.

Who said that?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

So, to recap: it's ok to punch a woman if she says being a woman is more than just feeling 'like a woman'.

Yes because it’s as bad as sexism. The irony!

 

[19force8]

Its sunny outside and i don't want to spend the whole day angry. If you want to support the she wolf's right to punch people who they suspect of harbouring thoughts that they disagree with go ahead, you can send money to the crowdfunder to help pay their fine if there is one.

It does look like being a beautiful day, and there's absolutely no need for you to answer a simple question. Off you toddle,

 

[19force8]

Yes because it’s as bad as sexism. The irony!

Lots of chatter, but still no answer.

 

[bimble]

It does look like being a beautiful day, and there's absolutely no need for you to answer a simple question. Off you toddle,

You are drawing an equivalence which i think is risible. If you were willing to define what you mean by the word transpohobe then we could have a conversation. And you've refused to answer my question, when you said you would.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Lots of chatter, but still no answer.

I don’t see why I should be drawn into a false comparison. And I provided an explanation.

 

[Sea Star]

oh, if you say so then. Event that isn't even newsworthy and is being reported purely to feed the freak show mentality of most cis people in order to sell papers is technically news but it's not new, not newsworthy and nobody's fucking business but the people directly involved!

Word

 

[spanglechick]

So, to recap: it's ok to punch a woman if she says being a woman is more than just feeling 'like a woman'.

Is that what happened then?

 

[19force8]

You are drawing an equivalence which i think is risible. If you were willing to define what you mean by the word transpohobe then we could have a conversation. And you've refused to answer my question, when you said you would.

I said I'd answer your question when you answered mine. You haven't, yet.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I actually think it does. If someone is spouting racist views, won't modify or back down or apologise, and when challenged verbally simply doubles down, I don't think it's unacceptable to resort to violence to shut them up or chase them away. I feel similar about homophobia and sexism. Transphobia is too new in my world to feel comfortable taking it that far, and I'd have trouble if the prejudiced person was female and the violence was threatened by someone male but equally, I don't think it's ok for any woman to get a free prejudice pass just because violence against women is also bad. If you open your mouth to spout prejudice, whoever you are, you must accept that you may encounter physical resistance. It comes with that particular territory.

Depends how you define "spouting prejudice".

Would asking questions about what it means to be a woman be "spouting prejudice"? and therefore deserving of a punch?

 

[bimble]

I said I'd answer your question when you answered mine. You haven't, yet.

Er. Your question was do you support the prosecution of this case. Which i do. I asked you if you think standing up for the right to punch terfs would lead to something good, like for instance all terfs shutting up forever out of fear of getting punched.

 

[19force8]

I don’t see why I should be drawn into a false comparison. And I provided an explanation.

No reason at all. And you didn't.

 

[19force8]

Er. Your question was do you support the prosecution of this case. Which i do. I asked you if you think standing up for the right to punch terfs would lead to something good, like for instance all terfs shutting up forever out of fear of getting punched.

No it wasn't. I can see now why PM gets so bloody irritated.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No reason at all. And you didn't.

You mustn’t have read post #8682 then.

 

[mojo pixy]

Depends how you define "spouting prejudice".

Would asking questions about what it means to be a woman be "spouting prejudice"? and therefore deserving of a punch?

That would depend on whether someone was actually asking questions or "just asking questions" in the way eg antisemites go about "just asking questions" about the holocaust etc.

And I personally wouldn't hit a woman under any circumstances. Just to clear that up.

 

[19force8]

You mustn’t have read post #8682 then.

And you mustn't have read #8684 then.

 

[Sea Star]

 

[bimble]

Ok sorry. Your question as put below

If a black person [or a woman or a lesbian] thumps a racist [sexist or homophobe] in the course of a scuffle engendered by their racist [sexist or homophobic] behaviour would you support their prosecution?

Is so disingenuous as a comparison ‘a scuffle engendered by their racist behaviour’ that I think it’s totally irrelevant to this case. But in a situation as you describe, where the racist caused the whole ruckus, I’d probably side with the puncher. That is not the case here. And again please define transphobe. If a transphobe is anyone who is not sincerely totally convinced that saying ‘I’m a woman’ makes it so with no further questions then there must be an awful lot of people need punching.

 

[bimble]

That would depend on whether someone was actually asking questions or "just asking questions" in the way eg antisemites go about "just asking questions" about the holocaust etc.

And I personally wouldn't hit a woman under any circumstances. Just to clear that up.

Questioning the ideology of gender identity is a bit like questioning whether the holocaust happened. Right.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Do they support working class TERFs?

 

[mojo pixy]

Questioning the ideology of gender identity is a bit like questioning whether the holocaust happened. Right.

It's the same "just asking questions". You know, the disingenuous stuff that has nothing to do with *actually* asking questions at all.

 

[kabbes]

It's the same "just asking questions". You know, the disingenuous stuff that has nothing to do with *actually* asking questions at all.

Asking questions as a rhetorical device to point out problems in an argument is a perfectly reasonable approach used by more people than just neo-nazis, you know.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

The events are disputed and currently the subject of a court case. But as a broad principle I don’t think that transphobes, racists, sexists, homophobes etc should be dealt with by the same methods as actual fascists.

Yeah it was a bit strange at the beginning of the thread when they were having a go at anti-fascists for"opposing political violence". TERFS aren't fascists

 

[bimble]

It's the same "just asking questions".

Its really not. Unless you're happy to say that for instance Helen Steel is as bad as a holocaust denier. This is just silly.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Do they support working class TERFs?

Working class transphobes*, working class racists- working class people do like to challenge this stuff too y ken.

*amended to avoid ambiguity .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's the same "just asking questions". You know, the disingenuous stuff that has nothing to do with *actually* asking questions at all.

I don't think that's fair. It assumes an agenda. Some of the 'terf' activists very definitely have an agenda, but they're not the only ones asking questions - lots of questions have been put on this thread by posters who don't have an agenda.