Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Nigel Irritable]

Meanwhile, here is a terf video take on todays activity outside westminster court. Some audible comments and the direction the camera points at times is just further confirmation of the rancid nature of this overt transphobe.

It’s a good thing that the leaders of the TERF mini-movement are so completely unable to disguise their vicious bigotry. It’s worth reminding people over and over again that this is what the “just asking questions” routine is supposed to disguise.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It seems that the twitter/mumsnet TERFs have decided that Sisters Uncut are MRAs now (and of course they endlessly make the same bigoted joke that the name refers to trans women with penises).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It seems that the twitter/mumsnet TERFs have decided that Sisters Uncut are MRAs now (and of course they endlessly make the same bigoted joke that the name refers to trans women with penises).

It’s amusing that it was Sisters Uncut who launched a physical attack on someone they accused of being a woman beater but are now supporting a woman beater on the basis that the assailant doesn’t identify as male.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It’s amusing that it was Sisters Uncut who launched a physical attack on someone they accused of being a woman beater but are now supporting a woman beater on the basis that the assailant has transitioned.

Why are you assuming that anyone should have the same attitude to allegations of domestic violence as they do to a scuffle between political activists? That’s very weird of you.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why are you assuming that anyone should have the same attitude to allegations of domestic violence as they do to a scuffle between political activists? That’s very weird of you.

So Sisters Uncut’s position is it’s ok to smack women about as long as you’re not co-habiting and have a political disagreement with them?

 

[Treacle Toes]

So Sisters Uncut’s position is it’s ok to smack women about as long as you’re not co-habiting and have a political disagreement with them?

Why don't you simply ask them and stop this pathetic imagining and building a false argument dance?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why don't you simply ask them and stop this pathetic imagining and building a false argument dance?

It isn’t a false argument. And it’s Nigel who is representing their position here so I’m happy asking him.

 

[sheothebudworths]

'Scuffle' is such a nice word, isn't it?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

'Scuffle' is such a nice word, isn't it?

Perhaps Nigel is their QC and is submitting it as a mitigating factor.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It isn’t a false argument. And it’s Nigel who is representing their position here so I’m happy asking him.

If I thought that you actually believed that there’s something inconsistent about opposing domestic violence while not automatically applying the same view to every single incident involving violence, I would take the view that you are too stupid to be trusted with unsupervised access to scissors. But we both know that you are being disingenuous. I’m quite entertained by your claim that I’m “representing” the view of Sisters Uncut because I noted that TERF weirdos are now convinced that various feminist groups are “MRAs” though.

 

[Sea Star]

It is news.

oh, if you say so then. Event that isn't even newsworthy and is being reported purely to feed the freak show mentality of most cis people in order to sell papers is technically news but it's not new, not newsworthy and nobody's fucking business but the people directly involved!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If I thought that you actually believed that there’s something inconsistent about opposing domestic violence while not automatically applying the same view to every single incident involving violence, I would take the view that you are too stupid to be trusted with unsupervised access to scissors. But we both know that you are being disingenuous. I’m quite entertained by your claim that I’m “representing” the view of Sisters Uncut because I noted that TERF weirdos are now convinced that various feminist groups are “MRAs” though.

Ignoring the amusement of you using a scissors analogy whilst talking about Sisters Uncut (geddit? ) I should remind you that 1) we’re talking about a supposed feminist organisation here and 2) one of the central points of the argument that has raged on for 200 pages is that Trans women should be granted access to women’s refuges because they’re victims of violence too!
And now here you are playing down violence along with Sisters Uncut.

 

[sheothebudworths]

If I thought that you actually believed that there’s something inconsistent about opposing domestic violence while not automatically applying the same view to every single incident involving violence...

It's not a lack of opposition when it's either carrying out or supporting violence (better word, btw), is it? Of course that's inconsistent.

 

[Sea Star]

They were all at it. Same tactics both sides.

bollocks.

 

[Sea Star]

In what way?

i don't understand your questions. She's a trans woman. A woman who's trans. Which means she's a woman. Stop asking stupid fucking questions?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It's not a lack of opposition when it's either carrying out or supporting violence (better word, btw), is it? Of course that's inconsistent.

Only pacifists believe it’s inconsistent to take different attitudes to different types of violence in different contexts. As Magnus is accusing them of being violent towards someone accused of domestic violence I think we can take it for granted that they aren’t pacifists.

 

[elbows]

oh, if you say so then. Event that isn't even newsworthy and is being reported purely to feed the freak show mentality of most cis people in order to sell papers is technically news but it's not new, not newsworthy and nobody's fucking business but the people directly involved!

Well certainly the main reason I've talked about it on this thread a few times this week is because someone else first brought it up here, and surprise surprise it was brought up in a very negative context that I felt unable to avoid confronting.

However when speaking more broadly about the story being newsworthy or not, I do feel bound to point out that the reason this news exists is because of a report in Transgender Health journal. I would therefore hope to discover whether you feel specific criticisms should be directed their way. Although I understand feelings such as boredom, disgust and hate over all the ridiculous scrutiny trans people and aspects of their lives are subjected to, I'm afraid I dont really think anyone gets the right to never have to see any issue that affects their lives end up covered in a medical journal. And since some of these channels are also used to spread positive, informative and useful information that is helpful to causes at times, I would be vary of appeals to shut down these avenues in some ways.

 

[elbows]

It is certainly possible to win the right not to have aspects of your life pathologised though.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Only pacifists believe it’s inconsistent to take different attitudes to different types of violence in different contexts. As Magnus is accusing them of being violent towards someone accused of domestic violence I think we can take it for granted that they aren’t pacifists.

So are we moving the militant response to fascism from that sphere towards other groups now? For the record, besides that time Sisters Uncut attacked anti-fascists and this occasion that they’re supporting someone who attacked feminists there’s no examples of them attacking actual fascists.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Only pacifists believe it’s inconsistent to take different attitudes to different types of violence in different contexts. As Magnus is accusing them of being violent towards someone accused of domestic violence I think we can take it for granted that they aren’t pacifists.

Errrm. Fucking hell, that's just embarrassing!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Maybe we can explain away attacks on trans people as being political scuffles. Nigel has lost control of his faculties.

 

[spanglechick]

Domestic violence *is* different to other violence. It comes with a large helping of long term emotional abuse, control and a fundamental context that make it hard for the victim to escape. DV is a particular kind of evil, and common enough - let's not diminish it by claiming any physical assault on a woman is dv. It isn't.

What happened - and exactly what happened is yet to be determined - but if you take a worst case scenario, what happened was bad enough in its own right. It doesn't need hyperbole.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Domestic violence *is* different to other violence. It comes with a large helping of long term emotional abuse, control and a fundamental context that make it hard for the victim to escape. DV is a particular kind of evil, and common enough - let's not diminish it by claiming any physical assault on a woman is dv. It isn't.

What happened - and exactly what happened is yet to be determined - but if you take a worst case scenario, what happened was bad enough in its own right. It doesn't need hyperbole.

They attacked anti-fascists on the basis of an allegation of domestic violence against one person; I’ve no idea at which point I’m supposed to have said domestic violence is comparable to other forms of violence.
Political violence is interesting though. Most liberals turn their noses up at working class lads smashing the shit out of fascists and condemn it with quips such as “you’re just as bad as they are!”
Yet it’s suddenly fine in this context. Why is that?

 

[sheothebudworths]

Of course it is - but it doesn't diminish the fact that another act of violence, or support of another act of violence, is still violence and that there is an inconsistency there when those are carried out by a group opposing the first act.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

So are we moving the militant response to fascism from that sphere towards other groups now?

Who is this “we” you mention?

 

[sheothebudworths]

I have *no idea* why pacifism (or it's opposite) has been mentioned. None.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Of course it is - but it doesn't diminish the fact that another act of violence, or support of another act of violence, is still violence and that there is an inconsistency there when those are carried out by a group opposing the first act.

Are you really this stupid? I know that Magnus is only pretending to be because he thinks it helps him make a point, but I’m a little worried that you might sincerely think this.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Who is this “we” you mention?

Good point. I meant you.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Are you really this stupid? I know that Magnus is only pretending to be because he thinks it helps him make a point, but I’m a little worried that you might sincerely think this.

Yet you’re struggling to counter these points I’m pretending to make.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Good point. I meant you.

You are seriously asking me if I personally am extending the methods of militant anti fascism to other groups now?