Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
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HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Ok, fair enough. I am always kinda anti-pedantry if it's clear what is being communicated, it's one of my knee jerk things as in other cases it can just derail whole threads ken.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I have no complaint about any flaws in my language being pointed out. Especially as I do not claim to have got everything right on this front yet. For a number of reasons, including wanting to understand the implications of certain uses of language before I fully adopted the terms. I will hold my hands up and admit that up till now, in this thread in particular, I avoided certain terminology most of the time because I wanted sure if it was adding to the polarisation in ways that could be counterproductive. From what I have seen since, there is apparently nothing to be gained from err-ing on that side of caution, and I will now start to use terms like cis.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that shows a good spirit
elbows
Well-Known Member
I'm taking a new approach to coping with this thread if it gets me down or warps the sense of perspective. I go and read something mainstream and remind myself how far we've come, and how out of whack some stances are.
Today for example I have resorted to the publication 'Fair care for trans patients', 'An RCN guide for nursing and health care professionals, second edition'.
Fair care for trans people | Royal College of Nursing
Today for example I have resorted to the publication 'Fair care for trans patients', 'An RCN guide for nursing and health care professionals, second edition'.
Fair care for trans people | Royal College of Nursing
elbows
Well-Known Member
Not that I should ever get too carried away with 'see how far we've come' since guides like that one were produced in the first place because of the extent to which NHS services were seen to be flawed too often on these fronts.
I can still use such things to remind myself how far out of step some of the terf stuff is though, I doubt they could even read that guide without finding at least a couple of red lines in it as far as they are concerned.
I can still use such things to remind myself how far out of step some of the terf stuff is though, I doubt they could even read that guide without finding at least a couple of red lines in it as far as they are concerned.
Interesting admission from fairplay4women in this factsheet.
So, as I've argued on this thread, the government seems to have confirmed that self-identification will have no impact on trans women's access to women only spaces. So if that was the concern then surely Fairplay 4 Women and the Women's Place Tour should be embarking on a cautious wind down. They've won after all.
But they aren't winding down, they are escalating. Sheila Jeffries, who believes in criminalising trans healthcare, is headlining the next meeting. It's almost as if they never really gave a shit about trans women accessing women's services or the GRA reforms and were just using them as wedge issues to generate hatred towards a group they want to morally mandate out of existence.
So, as I've argued on this thread, the government seems to have confirmed that self-identification will have no impact on trans women's access to women only spaces. So if that was the concern then surely Fairplay 4 Women and the Women's Place Tour should be embarking on a cautious wind down. They've won after all.
But they aren't winding down, they are escalating. Sheila Jeffries, who believes in criminalising trans healthcare, is headlining the next meeting. It's almost as if they never really gave a shit about trans women accessing women's services or the GRA reforms and were just using them as wedge issues to generate hatred towards a group they want to morally mandate out of existence.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
I can't cut and paste but the paragraph about women's aid appears to suddenly switch from transgender women working at a refuge to transgender women accessing the service without much clarification. Am I picking this up wrong or are they saying women's aid are no longer allowed to assess transgender women escaping abuse on a case by case basis? I can't think of anyone who would be better placed to make that decision, it is what they are trained for and have to deal with every day surely.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Where has the government done so?
Presumably in one of the cosy meetings rad fems have been having with Tory MPs. Strikes me as unlikely this is something they would invent.
Athos
Well-Known Member
So no actual evidence, then?
Are you saying the main trans critical campaign against GRA reform is not a legitimate source? That there legal fact sheets should not be trusted?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Ok. I don't see this as pedantry though. The way language is used around these issues is very often literally the only way I can tell if I should trust someone or not as an ally, or a potential ally. And their reaction when the issue is politely pointed out is a bit of an indicator too. Anyway. I'm happy with the responses there
.Can't be bothered to read 277 pages so apologies if this has been previously answered.
Please consider this a question of how to behave with modern manners rather than a slight on anyone involved, because the old manners I was taught had no precedent.
I manage very small company (<10 staff) with 2 trans ladies.
They've both decided to use the ladies loo, but the (3) girls I also employ are refusing to let them, citing "they're blokes"...and threatening me for not protecting them from sexual harm.
Is there a stock answer to this??
Please consider this a question of how to behave with modern manners rather than a slight on anyone involved, because the old manners I was taught had no precedent.
I manage very small company (<10 staff) with 2 trans ladies.
They've both decided to use the ladies loo, but the (3) girls I also employ are refusing to let them, citing "they're blokes"...and threatening me for not protecting them from sexual harm.
Is there a stock answer to this??
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
So the (non trans) women are wrong to insist on their own toilet facilities?
Even though the trans ladies have only declared themselves as female "verbally"?
Bloody hell. That's a hornets nest.
So the (non trans) women are wrong to insist on their own toilet facilities?
Even though the trans ladies have only declared themselves as female "verbally"?
Bloody hell. That's a hornets nest.
editor
hiraethified
I don't believe a word of this so I'm banning you from this thread. Feel free to start your own thread.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I'm asking whether there's any evidence that this claim is true. They've not offered any. And, seemingly, you can't, either.
As it happens, I don't consider them to be a reliable source of information, and wouldn't accept what they say without corroboration. Nor, I suspect would you, except where it suits you to cherry-pick.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Yeah I would go with that, I think reading that page there's unreliable info and also that they don't seem too bright, after making that claim they then draw the conclusion that "biological sex matters. The law agrees" What law? Nothing has been passed yet.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Unless they mean Justice Herself haha
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Why exactly do you think sex and sexual orientation are protected characteristics in the Equality Act?
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Not doing this. Go back and read smokedout's post onwards, my post was part of an ongoing conversation not a standalone essay on the law as it stands.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Look at your own post.
Do women imagine their pregnancies now as well as their "gender identities"?
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
elbows
Well-Known Member
Despite the way I clash with those holding a particular position here, my interest and concerns regarding themes in that article are intact.
From the article:
If I actually got to talk to more women from this category it would help. Because most of what we see on that front here in this thread is hardly from people who could reasonably be described as having previously been 'enthusiastic allies of trans people'. That doesnt mean I am questioning whether they exist, more along the lines of it being too easy for them to be overshadowed by those who have never been enthusiastic allies.
Anyway I'm all for consulting widely and carefully, even though I expect the end results of that to be complex and messy in places.
There is another line in the article that I would like to know more about, is there a detailed account of what this is referring to somewhere?
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