Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[krtek a houby]

I thought it was acceptable for minority groups to reclaim words used against them?

Hm. Not sure. I remember reading Richard Pryor's autobiography in which he completely regretted his use of the n-word. His visits to Africa led him to an epiphany of sorts

Richard Pryor On Why He Stopped Using The N-Word

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Is it though? Acceptable, I mean? Or is it understandable, but still not really that acceptable really? Not all people represented by that kind of stuff agree with it or appreciate it.

So people referring to themselves as queer is unacceptable, in your view?

 

[mojo pixy]

Queer has developed new connotations more recently though, hasn't it? Nowadays Queer doesn't only mean homosexual, it pretty much means anyone whose sexuality deviates from some notional cis/het/missionary norm. So it's a term almost anyone can claim if they want, or can be used on almost anyone, and it's probably losing its power.

William S Burroughs used it as the title of a book so as to shock, was he also looking for solidarity? I don't know but I doubt it from the tone of the book. I think he was looking for condemnation. I mention this because it's a famous and permanently-etched cultural use of the word. I don't like it much, maybe I'm old enough to feel the scorn in it. So yes, I personally would rather there were another word to use without the negative history and connotations.

Luckily there are other words to use without that negativity attached and I myself would tend to use them.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Queer has developed new connotations more recently though, hasn't it? Nowadays Queer doesn't only mean homosexual, it pretty much means anyone whose sexuality deviates from some notional cis/het/missionary norm. So it's a term almost anyone can claim if they want, or can be used on almost anyone, and it's probably losing its power.

William S Burroughs used it as the title of a book so as to shock, was he also looking for solidarity? I don't know but I doubt it from the tone of the book. I think he was looking for condemnation. I mention this because it's a famous and permanently-etched cultural use of the word. I don't like it much, maybe I'm old enough to feel the scorn in it. So yes, I personally would rather there were another word to use without the negative history and connotations.

Luckily there are other words to use without that negativity attached and I myself would tend to use them.

But you don’t condemn those who do?

 

[krtek a houby]

So people referring to themselves as queer is unacceptable, in your view?

Personally, I had enough of people calling me just that over the years, so no, it's not acceptable in my book. Others will disagree, of course.

 

[mojo pixy]

queer (adj.)

c. 1500, "strange, peculiar, eccentric," from Scottish, perhaps from Low German (Brunswick dialect) queer "oblique, off-center," related to German quer "oblique, perverse, odd," from Old High German twerh "oblique," from PIE root *terkw- "to twist."

What I regret is that this original meaning has been buried under generations of poison. It was a great word with a long and venerable history and it's been poisoned in a few generations by ignorant scumbags.

But you don’t condemn those who do?

Condemn to what? I'm not sure what form condemnation would take and what that would even mean. I don't like people using terms that have hateful connotations, even in jest, in irony or in some misguided sense of solidarity, so no, I don't like Queer, just as I don't like Nigger or Bitch or Chav, whoever uses it or why. Ugly words, used for ugly reasons, and no amount of re-appropriation takes the stench out of words like those.

For better or worse though, I'm not in charge of humanity.

 

[bimble]

You seem to be missing the point that this is what people reclaiming words used against them is all about?

 

[mojo pixy]

You seem to be missing the point that this is what people reclaiming words used against them is all about?

I'm not missing the point. I understand why people do it. I don't like it and I don't do it, though there are a number of gendered and racialised and class insults that have been used against me over the years. I don't personally think it's an OK thing to do, I think it's just perpetuates the harm of the term, I don't believe it's any kind of antidote.

 

[pengaleng]

could this get any more boring?

 

[mojo pixy]

Since you're here though, bimble,

Things are changing fast, kids are going on tumblr and identifying as trans for reasons totally different from what might have motivated folks years ago, I hope its ok to acknowledge this.

What reasons were people giving years ago, and what is changing do you think?

 

[bimble]

mojo pixy did you read the article I posted a link to just above , from California’s leading gender clinic, where kids are going to the doctors saying they are all kinds of non binary and want just a touch of testosterone etc? I mean that sort of thing is new.
here it is again When kids come in saying they are transgender (or no gender), these doctors try to help

 

[mojo pixy]

California's leading gender clinic. I see. That must be a fairly exclusive clientele then, so is it that rich californians are representative of something, or are they just the most indulged and pampered (and medicated) humans on the entire planet?

It is new though, the relentless march of scientific progress and cultural change together will ensure that novelty continues to be the case. Railing against it is one way of dealing with it. If we're swapping deep insights

 

[bimble]

You asked me why i said that something different is going on now than it was decades ago. I've tried to explain. If you don't think those kids are 'really trans' that's another conversation isn't it.

 

[pengaleng]

whats inherently wrong about wanting a touch of something cus one feels andro?? why is that a problem??

asking for a friend

 

[pengaleng]

what does 'really trans' mean?

 

[8ball]

whats inherently wrong about wanting a touch of something cus one feels andro?? why is that a problem??

asking for a friend

I guess if these things just worked for a day and had no major health downsides, then fine.

When it's kids who are below the age where they are not even considered able to legally consent to sex with people their own age, though, and where these things *don't* just change things for a short time with no downsides, I think there is a duty of care to consider.

I think it takes a very market-led healthcare system to consider it appropriate to allow the children to 'lead' on this.

 

[bimble]

what does 'really trans' mean?

Ye i don't know, that's why I put it in ' 's.
Mojo pixy was suggesting that maybe those kids in California getting treatment are just a bunch of 'overly indulged pampered and over-medicated' people, that's why i asked.

 

[pengaleng]

I guess if these things just worked for a day and had no major health downsides, then fine.

When it's kids who are below the age where they are not even considered able to legally consent to sex with people their own age, though, and where these things *don't* just change things for a short time with no downsides, I think there is a duty of care to consider.

I think it takes a very market-led healthcare system to consider it appropriate to allow the children to 'lead' on this.

is a very touchy subject init

 

[pengaleng]

Ye i don't know, that's why I put it in ' 's.
Mojo pixy was suggesting that maybe those kids in California getting treatment are just a bunch of 'overly indulged pampered and over-medicated' people, that's why i asked.

I dunno, but I reckon you gotta take any stats from america with a pinch of salt just cus their healthcare system is so radically different

 

[pengaleng]

the whole kids thing is hard tho cus if this shit was all over back in the day I'd not have gone to the dr and asked for stuff and got laughed at, probably woulda jumped at it, i gotta go to work me lifts here

 

[Pickman's model]

mojo pixy did you read the article I posted a link to just above , from California’s leading gender clinic, where kids are going to the doctors saying they are all kinds of non binary and want just a touch of testosterone etc? I mean that sort of thing is new.
here it is again When kids come in saying they are transgender (or no gender), these doctors try to help

What reasons were people giving years ago, and what is changing do you think?

 

[co-op]

could this get any more boring?

Has it ever occurred to you that other posters might not have entertaining you as their top priority?

 

[co-op]

I think it takes a very market-led healthcare system to consider it appropriate to allow the children to 'lead' on this.

Anything which demands large amounts of surgery over several years and then follow-up multi-meds for the rest of someone's life is a hugely lucrative opportunity for a private healthcare system. When the likes of Cosmo or Vogue embrace transgender - as they have, with great enthusiasm - it sure ain't for political reasons revolving around personal liberation, that's obvious.

 

[Sea Star]

Oh. Wow. You actually believe that do you? That's as mad as any conspiracy theory I've ever heard. Don't extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

I've not had any surgery (like many trans people) and no one is exactly going out of their way to offer it to me, and the drugs I take are existing drugs, that have been around for years, that are pretty much cheap as chips.

Also you know that a fraction of 1% of people transition, whether that be socially or medically, or whatever. Hardly a major market opportunity.

 

[elbows]

Anything which demands large amounts of surgery over several years and then follow-up multi-meds for the rest of someone's life is a hugely lucrative opportunity for a private healthcare system. When the likes of Cosmo or Vogue embrace transgender - as they have, with great enthusiasm - it sure ain't for political reasons revolving around personal liberation, that's obvious.

Vogue etc have various reasons for wanting to be seen to be moving with the times. Transphobic dinosaur is not this years look.

 

[Pickman's model]

Has it ever occurred to you that other posters might not have entertaining you as their top priority?

It's up in the top ten

 

[co-op]

Oh. Wow. You actually believe that do you? That's as mad as any conspiracy theory I've ever heard. Don't extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

I've not had any surgery (like many trans people) and no one is exactly going out of their way to offer it to me, and the drugs I take are existing drugs, that have been around for years, that are pretty much cheap as chips.

Also you know that a fraction of 1% of people transition, whether that be socially or medically, or whatever. Hardly a major market opportunity.

It’s not mad, it’s a statement of the obvious. A profit-seeking medical system is going to exploit whatever’s out there. The right 1% can generate plenty of money. What’s controversial about this?

 

[co-op]

Vogue etc have various reasons for wanting to be seen to be moving with the times. Transphobic dinosaur is not this years look.

I’m sure you’re right that this kind of branding/image stuff is far more important.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s not mad, it’s a statement of the obvious. A profit-seeking medical system is going to exploit whatever’s out there. The right 1% can generate plenty of money. What’s controversial about this?

The links you're making in putting this crock of shit together

Name me one trans billionaire

 

[Sea Star]

It’s not mad, it’s a statement of the obvious. A profit-seeking medical system is going to exploit whatever’s out there. The right 1% can generate plenty of money. What’s controversial about this?

Flat earthers say that a flat earth is a statement of the obvious. You need to evidence claims not just speculate wildly based on nothing.

I reckon if the medical industry wanted to exploit trans people, then therapy for life and the corresponding medication would make them more money.