elbows
Well-Known Member
I ran out of time but I promise to answer this no later than tomorrow evening, hopefully much sooner.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
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I ran out of time but I promise to answer this no later than tomorrow evening, hopefully much sooner.
bimble
floofy
Don't leave it 24 hours whatever you do.
bimble
floofy
I don't understand how people are not getting this. That's why i'm so fixated on the whole thing, I can't believe what's happening, under the guise of progress, lefty progress at that. And any dissenting voice is called regressive. Its amazing, to me.
bimble
floofy
That bit, with the rabbithole, and the clocks.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I wish I cud still smoke weed. Would take the edge off. Everything wud make more sense n all.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
It's antithetical to leftist thinking: consider Mill or Engels, neither would have put up with this.
bimble
floofy
It is set up in total opposition to history & material reality, far as i can see. It's like a new religion.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
I don't think that's a fantastic argument to begin with. Is that what most of the people on this thread are trying to do?This. How is this idea (change your body to match your 'gender identity') helping to break down the whole oppressive regime of gender?
Nobody will answer this question.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
It's a cult.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Because most people are not doing this to destroy oppressive binary roles. And if some think they are, what can you do?
maybe thats the problem, everyone should just get stoned before thinking about this shit
I always am
bimble
floofy
ok. So there is nothing progressive then about either
1) transitioning physically to closer approximate your gender identity
or
2) trying to use science to show that being trans is a biological thing.
bimble
floofy
progressive by proxy means ... it feels ok?
no like the act of transitioning or whatever the individual wont do it for reasons of progressiveness, but it'll still be seen as a progressive thing, it's still progressive cus it's moving forward
i am too high for this shit, dont actually take me as a authority on such matters i dont even know whether by proxy is the right term, pickmans will correct me init
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Most simply feel they don't have a choice and it is who they are and what they need to do. Presumably Miranda felt that way, but only differs in disavowing the term woman. I don't see how it is progressive or regressive. It is a fact that millions of people just have to live with. And some of them just happen to subscribe to radical feminist ideology. I can bet for everyone one that does, a few will not.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
The why's are poorly understood by everybody, I think that much is clear.
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
Even my GP tells me they don't really know for sure what is going on with something simple like anxiety. But people frontin like they kane whit like.
Sorry, flooding the boards like shit.
Sorry, flooding the boards like shit.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it'll do to be getting on with
Firstly the number of people changing their bodies is tiny, especially at a young age. Just 32 people under 15 were proscribed hormone blockers in 2015 according to the Tavistock Institute. So the idea that this is an epidemic, or that young lesbians are being compelled to do this, is completely spurious. Another lie in fact.
The huge numbers of people identifying as non-binary are not in the main changing their bodies. Some people though experience a gender and often bodily dysphoria that is so strong that they do seek medical intervention. This is usually evident from an early age - boys sitting to pee in infanthood, complaints about genitalia in early childhood, are just two of the symptoms of gender dysphoria in children. Later in life this can also include severe discomfort with the sexed parts of the body, often leading to sexual problems, relationship problems and depression. Nobody knows whether this is purely due to the social environment or whether biology plays a part although the consensus amongst some specialists is moving in that direction. What is known is that transition to some degree is the only treatment which has any substantial success in alleviating these problems.
Of course if it's a purely social phenomena then this distress might be down to what you could crudely call cosmetic factors, which is not to undermine any changes that might be made, the NHS carries out cosmetic work regularly. Or it might be down to something we don't yet understand about how the brain maps the body, or something else, or a combination of several things both social and biological - much like sexuality just because we can't 'see' it yet does not mean that gender dysphoria does not exist. No-one chooses to have this degree of gender dysphoria and it is often present since very early childhood. Until recently many people did everything they could to deny it, hence why so many people transitioned later in life. Nor does it means that gender identity, at this level, has anything at all to do with tastes, interests and attributes.
There was a time when only people who experienced severe gender dysphoria were generally known as transsexuals. Now a bunch of kids have come along and thrown a lot of that out of the window, saying they don't need to be gender dysphoric to reject or change their gender they can be whatever the fuck they want. A lot of young people now are rejecting gender completely, or identifying as non-binary, or gender fluid. I do not believe that this is strengthening the gender binary, I think it is weakening it. I think it's possible, given that the material conditions that underpinned the gender binary have changed significantly, that the importance of gender is likely to diminish significantly inthe future and this generation are the vanguard of that. I hope so, it certainly looks like a more sustained challenge to the gender binary than anything trans critical feminists ever managed to pull off.
But because it's not quite pure a lot of gender opposed feminists are attacking this generation. I think that's a real shame and I think this should be allowed to play out because I haven't seen a greater challenge to what it means to be a man/woman in my lifetime and I think the deconstruction, or even demolition of the gender binary would probably look a lot like this, and probably involve lots of arguments about pronouns and changing rooms.
None of this means I support the rise in identity politics across all social spheres, or that I don't recognise that a lot of these young people are quite annoying. Neo-liberalism is also certainly playing its part in shaping social attitudes and individual identities and I initially had some sympathy with the truscum position because of that. But I've changed my mind, this is starting to look less like a youth culture, fad or fashion and more like something which might endure and develop so I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. The triumph over capital looks a long way off but perhaps this is something that can be won now. The working class can only be stronger for that.
tl:dr ... leave them kids alone.
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HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
You would have been terrifying at the bookfair IRL pedantryit'll do to be getting on with
elbows
Well-Known Member
I've found some time already, but I've developed a temperature and after smokedouts post am struggling to think of anything that isnt directly connected to issues stemming from phenomenon that are often crudely labelled as 'generation gap'.
If I keep feeling sicker I'll have to go into a mostly listening-only mode for a bit because I'm just going to babble.
If I keep feeling sicker I'll have to go into a mostly listening-only mode for a bit because I'm just going to babble.
bimble
floofy
Moving forward like paying for stuff on your phone at tescos is progressive?
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