Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[MochaSoul]

FGS she’s not a teen you crybully bullshitter

Actually, in many ways, we should look at her just like that. Maybe not so much as a teen but as a very young person. The whole contained overly protective environment in unis and such these days doesn't do much for kids like her (especially with her personal problems) but I find it amazing that the Labour party has allowed itself to become a kind of pastiche of the worst of student politics instead of acting in ways that would teach her and others. She's a kid surrounded by people who let her behave as such and that includes the media.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

FGS she’s not a teen you crybully bullshitter

Deliberate misgendering and deadnaming are bullying.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Deliberate misgendering and deadnaming are bullying.

What you mean you never knew she had had a birthday? How dare you even post on this thread?

 

[co-op]

Deliberate misgendering and deadnaming are bullying.

Of course they are. But equally, to the savvy ambitious operator, they are career drivers. I think they'll get Lily into Parliament where she'll be idolised by many, chased constantly by fawning media, paid huge amounts of money and generally live the life of riley, all the while claiming unimpeachable victim status.

It'll actually fuck her up.

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually, in many ways, we should look at her just like that. Maybe not so much as a teen but as a very young person. The whole contained overly protective environment in unis and such these days doesn't do much for kids like her (especially with her personal problems) but I find it amazing that the Labour party has allowed itself to become a kind of pastiche of the worst of student politics instead of acting in ways that would teach her and others. She's a kid surrounded by people who let her behave as such and that includes the media.

having seen the worst of student politics i can confirm the labour party has not ascended to that level

 

[MochaSoul]

Of course they are. But equally, to the savvy ambitious operator, they are career drivers. I think they'll get Lily into Parliament where she'll be idolised by many, chased constantly by fawning media, paid huge amounts of money and generally live the life of riley, all the while claiming unimpeachable victim status.

It'll actually fuck her up.

Argh... that's not a good story and it'll be worse if she transitions and regrets it or decides to detransition.
I watched this the other day. The young lady at the end of it had to give her testimony anonymously because of the flak from the trans community.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Actually, in many ways, we should look at her just like that. Maybe not so much as a teen but as a very young person. The whole contained overly protective environment in unis and such these days doesn't do much for kids like her (especially with her personal problems) but I find it amazing that the Labour party has allowed itself to become a kind of pastiche of the worst of student politics instead of acting in ways that would teach her and others. She's a kid surrounded by people who let her behave as such and that includes the media.

And Dr RadFem and her chums, what's their excuse?

 

[MochaSoul]

having seen the worst of student politics i can confirm the labour party has not ascended to that level

Tell that to Kiri Tunks, Pilgrim Tucker or Ruth Serwotka among the more anonymous one's some of whom on benefits and have been receiving veiled threats of the "I'll report you to the DWP, you lazy TERF." kind. "Off to the gulag with you" would not be too far off in the right conditions. People have no idea.

 

[Pickman's model]

Tell that to Kiri Tunks, Pilgrim Tucker or Ruth Serwotka among the more anonymous one's some of whom on benefits and have been receiving veiled threats of the "I'll report you to the DWP, you lazy TERF." kind. "Off to the gulag with you" would not be too far off in the right conditions. People have no idea.

yeh. the worst of student politics is worse than that.

 

[MochaSoul]

And Dr RadFem and her chums, what's their excuse?

I posted that because I'd not want to be on LM's shoes and I can see why the trans community feels under siege even if I don't agree with most of their premises. Are you so blind to the other side? Just take a look at the first comment on the reddit thread Co-Op posted. Women/parents are having to go underground to discuss these issues and are advising each other to meet in secret. Is it any wonder some of them go overboard? How would you respond to a bunch of kids threatening to take your livelihood away or that of your friends?
How about you discuss the toxic environment created when even professionals in the women's issues feel they have to keep their mouths shut because they know their funding could be at risk on the grounds of TERFdom?
How would you feel if you were the parent of a young lesbian girl being pressured into becoming a man and after that still having to fend off penises? How would you feel if they started thinking of conversion therapy such as the screenshots I posted two or three days ago?
What are your comments on this story? Would you not be worried to contemplate the possibility of schools, children services, etc being on your case if you decided to teach your child to feel great to be themselves and not give permission for transition before your child were of age? Read this story and make a comment that's not just demolishing some else's argument: I hated her guts at the time: A trans-desister and her mom tell their story

 

[8ball]

Argh... that's not a good story and it'll be worse if she transitions and regrets it or decides to detransition.
I watched this the other day. The young lady at the end of it had to give her testimony anonymously because of the flak from the trans community.

This is really difficult. Some people on all sides react incredibly hatefully to people who don't fit in the right box.

 

[pengaleng]

hang on wasnt that lesbian festival shut down actual years ago, like at least 4

also if you're a lesbian attracted to vagina specifically then you're gynephilic thats all.

gynephilic lesbian.

dont come for me i dont invent the words.

 

[8ball]

hang on wasnt that lesbian festival shut down actual years ago, like at least 4

Last one was 2 and half years ago, I think.

 

[pengaleng]

Last one was 2 and half years ago, I think.

and it's on this thread because?? where is the thread that was about that?? do people actually care?? or are they using it out of convenience

it's lovely going oooh look at this lesbian festival what was shut down cus of scary trans people but if thats all you are doing then it's fucked up.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I posted that because I'd not want to be on LM's shoes and I can see why the trans community feels under siege even if I don't agree with most of their premises. Are you so blind to the other side? Just take a look at the first comment on the reddit thread Co-Op posted. Women/parents are having to go underground to discuss these issues and are advising each other to meet in secret. Is it any wonder some of them go overboard? How would you respond to a bunch of kids threatening to take your livelihood away or that of your friends?
How about you discuss the toxic environment created when even professionals in the women's issues feel they have to keep their mouths shut because they know their funding could be at risk on the grounds of TERFdom?
How would you feel if you were the parent of a young lesbian girl being pressured into becoming a man and after that still having to fend off penises? How would you feel if they started thinking of conversion therapy such as the screenshots I posted two or three days ago?
What are your comments on this story? Would you not be worried to contemplate the possibility of schools, children services, etc being on your case if you decided to teach your child to feel great to be themselves and not give permission for transition before your child were of age? Read this story and make a comment that's not just demolishing some else's argument: I hated her guts at the time: A trans-desister and her mom tell their story

There are lots of worrying developments around much of this and many things to discuss. But bringing those up in response to a post condemning the actions of certain individuals towards one other individual, which amount imo to a concerted hate campaign, is just whatabouttery.

 

[MochaSoul]

There are lots of worrying developments around much of this and many things to discuss. But bringing those up in response to a post condemning the actions of certain individuals towards one other individual, which amount imo to a concerted hate campaign, is just whatabouttery.

Yeah.. I knew there was a reason my eyes tended to skip your posts.

 

[pengaleng]

wheres the thread about the lesbian festival??

 

[8ball]

and it's on this thread because?? where is the thread that was about that?? do people actually care?? or are they using it out of convenience

it's lovely going oooh look at this lesbian festival what was shut down cus of scary trans people but if thats all you are doing then it's fucked up.

I can't comment on the motives for referring to it.

 

[MochaSoul]

yeh. the worst of student politics is worse than that.

Except that wasn't directed at some student in a debate society. It's a disabled [now ex]member of the Labour Party.

 

[pengaleng]

I can't comment on the motives for referring to it.

well i wasnt directly asking you, it just seems highly suspect to me because I remember the michigan festival being shut cus i was on social media at the time just kinda wanna see if anyone was upset enough at the time to do a thread to highlight it cus they cared so much, yes i could search but I'm not as invested as the others here condemning it

 

[Pickman's model]

Except that wasn't directed at some student in a debate society. It's a disabled [now ex]member of the Labour Party.

i was thinking of your actual student politics, not of events in a student society

 

[pengaleng]

was kinda expecting the mocha to smack me with links to threads about the michigan lesbian festival, but I can only assume no one was involved or knew about it or bothered

 

[MochaSoul]

This is expected today:
Labour’s NEC Set To Confirm Trans People Allowed On All-Women Shortlists
They (Labour) are going to be 'ahead of the law' on this, in their own words. The all women shortlists are legally about sex (governed by equalities act which talks about sex not gender identies). They're now going to say sex is no longer relevant to these all women shortlists and self id is what counts.

Still waiting for confirmation but...

 

[Sea Star]

A very articulate recent mumsnet post from a lesbian about all this;

Transactivism and the lesbian community | Mumsnet Discussion

just straight up transphobia that is.

 

[pengaleng]

just straight up transphobia that is.

I aint bothered reading any of those long bait essay posts OR the bait as fuck links, dont give em hits

 

[smokedout]

"Agree or you're out and we'll disavow you despite all you may have done to get us this far."
Women excluding women from debating an issue regarding women and usurping them of their roles and contributions to earlier achievements.
It's actually quite depressing.

On twitter the simple questioning of building trans prisons or trans wings in prisons (as in Italy) could mean solitary confinement at least occasionally (depending on their proportion in the population) and that's not humane is a scandal. I get angry and irritated and I don't always make sense not even to myself but FFS. These groups need a rethink of terms like solidarity and what they mean in practice, big time.

Are you saying you would support trans prisoners being held in de facto solitary confinement a lot of the time? Alongside your earlier demand of seperate monitoring of trans people who commit crimes? At least we have some demands now. What next? Are pink triangles too gendered?

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you saying you would support trans prisoners being held in de facto solitary confinement a lot of the time? Alongside your earlier demand of seperate monitoring of trans people who commit crimes? At least we have some demands now. What next? Are pink triangles too gendered?

non-oppressive circles.

 

[co-op]

I aint bothered reading any of those long bait essay posts OR the bait as fuck links, dont give em hits

LOL. Like Mumsnet is desperate for your clicks.

 

[co-op]

just straight up transphobia that is.

I can be pretty sure that you won't try to explain why it's transphobic but if you (or anyone else) can be bothered I'd like to know why. Using 'transphobia' to shut up everyone who doesn't agree with you is going to backfire on trans activists eventually.

 

[MochaSoul]

Are you saying you would support trans prisoners being held in de facto solitary confinement a lot of the time? Alongside your earlier demand of seperate monitoring of trans people who commit crimes? At least we have some demands now. What next? Are pink triangles too gendered?

Get a grip. I was having that conversation with some other people and I was the one saying that I grew up in a country with a very short history of democracy and I wouldn't feel comfortable with de facto solitary confinement for trans people who may have found themselves on wrong side of the law for non-sexual offences as many gay and lesbians suffered during those years. You got me very wrong but I don't care what you think of me no longer. I'm a TERF, remember?