Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[TopCat]

Referring to people as "trannies" is hateful. Would you agree or disagree?

What about people who insist on using the term for themselves?

 

[mojo pixy]

What about all these genders though, will science be investigating them ?
Genderfluid Support

Science or not, here's one from that blog that may suit a lot of us: Anongender: a gender that is unknown to both yourself and others

 

[krtek a houby]

What about people who insist on using the term for themselves?

MY was aiming it at others who may not be comfortable with it.

 

[Pickman's model]

What about all these genders though, will science be investigating them ?
Genderfluid Support

Misses out ahabogender, an introspective gender whose relentless and obsessive pursuit of gender 'truth' leads themselves and their associates to disaster

 

[Magnus McGinty]

MY was aiming it at others who may not be comfortable with it.

You fell into a trap.

 

[bimble]

Misses out ahabogender, an introspective gender whose relentless and obsessive pursuit of gender 'truth' leads themselves and their associates to disaster

That definitely fits me better than the Gender Identity 'woman', as defined helpfully below:

 

[Treacle Toes]

Nope. As one of those who has been fact checking 'your lies not delusional. Time you fucked off.

I don't think I've ever seen you post in this way/fuck someone off with this kind of tone.

As someone who is new to a lot of the theory
and discussion I'd be grateful if you could say what your fact checking has revealed in terms of 'lies'.

 

[JimW]

That definitely fits me better than the Gender Identity 'woman', as defined helpfully below:

View attachment 125811

Please tell me that's not your twitter handle being replied to. Self identitying as a liberal really is going too far.

 

[kabbes]

That definitely fits me better than the Gender Identity 'woman', as defined helpfully below:

View attachment 125811

You found a good example there of the reactionary approach I was objecting to in this paragraph:

I’m torn between respecting the fact that people are forged in their environment and need to be allowed to live in the way they have been made (however that has been done) and an intuitive concern about the inherently reactionary way that acceptability for transgender people is being approached. I think it’s complicated, basically.

This is why the debate needs to happen in wider forums than just amongst transgender people. Not because of “curiosity” or a desire to delegitimise anybody’s feelings. But because it is rewriting the entire social narrative, not just the niche it occupies.

 

[bimble]

Please tell me that's not your twitter handle being replied to. Self identitying as a liberal really is going too far.

No it’s not me (My twitter name is even worse but I don’t tweet just read).

 

[TopCat]

Nope. As one of those who has been fact checking your lies not delusional. Time you fucked off.

Thread police now?

 

[Pickman's model]

Thread police now?

He may be a liberal but even broken clocks right twice a day: and he's right about Yardley

 

[Cloo]

View attachment 125787
Munroe Bergdorf, a trans woman, drumming up support for the Women's March London.
We have to not mention vaginas or uteruses at a women's protest march so as not to exclude people who were born with a male body who want to come too but inexplicably cannot cope with female biology being all in their faces now.

Yeah, I agree Munroe Bergdorf went too far there. First, a lot of what the march is about *is* reproductive rights, pussies being grabbed etc. Second, reproductive rights is not and cannot be an intersectional issue with trans issues. I'm willing to be corrected on the latter, but I can't see how it can *directly* affect trans women, although it might affect partners and people close to them.

I disagree with people claiming this shows Bergdorf is a mispgynist man and this is male privilege - I think it's just poorly thought-through, but she should have known better really because she's given TERFs a stick to beat trans women with.

 

[Sunset Tree]

She couldn't have known better as stuff like this is at the core of her politics.

Undecided if it's misogyny/male privilege but it's a ridiculous worldview.

 

[bimble]

Yeah, I agree Munroe Bergdorf went too far there. First, a lot of what the march is about *is* reproductive rights, pussies being grabbed etc. Second, reproductive rights is not and cannot be an intersectional issue with trans issues. I'm willing to be corrected on the latter, but I can't see how it can *directly* affect trans women, although it might affect partners and people close to them.

It’s an ‘intersectional issue’ because worrying about pregnancy and reproductive rights is part of ‘cis privilege’. Not all women have that luxury etc.

 

[Cloo]

And indeed not all cis women have that privilege, although let's face it that's kind of splitting hairs.

But I still don't think it justifies suggesting (unless I'm reading her wrong) that cis women shouldn't mention these issues or their genitalia at a protest lest it feel exclusionary to trans women. A placard saying 'Only real women have a vagina' would be exclusionary and anti-trans but 'Keep your laws out of my uterus' is about a specific and very real threat to the bodily autonomy of the vast majority of women in many parts of the world and no one should feel they have to add '... (BTW, I recognise not all women have uterii') in order not to exclude trans women or women who've had hysterectomies.

 

[kabbes]

Tail wagging the dog.

 

[Treacle Toes]

And indeed not all cis women have that privilege, although let's face it that's kind of splitting hairs.

But I still don't think it justifies suggesting (unless I'm reading her wrong) that cis women shouldn't mention these issues or their genitalia at a protest lest it feel exclusionary to trans women. A placard saying 'Only real women have a vagina' would be exclusionary and anti-trans but 'Keep your laws out of my uterus' is about a specific and very real threat to the bodily autonomy of the vast majority of women in many parts of the world and no one should feel they have to add '... (BTW, I recognise not all women have uterii') in order not to exclude trans women or women who've had hysterectomies.

I'm not sure she did say that those things can't be mentioned...her request was that reproductive systems are not 'centred'.... I haven't read her Twitter feed, did she go on to say what she thinks should be centred at 'the heart of the demonstration?'

 

[pengaleng]

What about all these genders though, will science be investigating them ?
Genderfluid Support

you're seriously linking a tumblr site for this argument??

yer just taking the piss and trying to find the wackiest shit to complain about, bintle, fix up

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s an ‘intersectional issue’ because worrying about pregnancy and reproductive rights is part of ‘cis privilege’. Not all women have that luxury etc.

Whoa there. I think you'll find you don't need to be able to produce a child to be able to worry about issues of pregnancy or reproductive rights.

 

[bimble]

you're seriously linking a tumblr site for this argument??

yer just taking the piss and trying to find the wackiest shit to complain about, bintle, fix up

I am taking the piss its true. But do only 2 proper genders exist according to you then?

 

[Pickman's model]

I am taking the piss its true. But do only 2 proper genders exist according to you then?

What's a proper gender?

 

[8ball]

I am taking the piss its true. But do only 2 proper genders exist according to you then?

Or 3 with ‘neuter’?

I find it interesting that some languages have a lot more than 3 genders.

Also, (by the by), some life forms have a lot more than 2 sexes.

 

[Cloo]

I'm not sure she did say that those things can't be mentioned...her request was that reproductive systems are not 'centred'.... I haven't read her Twitter feed, did she go on to say what she thinks should be centred at 'the heart of the demonstration?'

Yes, I think that's the words she used and she put it in the context of including all women... so she saw it as an inclusionary move, but I think she missed the point that reproductive issues *are* at the centre of these marches. The threat to bodily autonomy is far more the point of these protests than trans rights. I think that people should protest about trans rights at these marches by all means, but this should not have to be at the expense of women protesting about their reproductive rights. Otherwise you are saying that the issues of a tiny minority of women, albeit an extra-oppressed group, outweighs the issues of the vast majority.

 

[8ball]

What's a proper gender?

Surprised to see no “propagender” - where you mention your self-identified gender as often as possible for political reasons.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It’s a propagenda coup

 

[Pickman's model]

Surprised to see no “propagender” - where you mention your self-identified gender as often as possible for political reasons.

Beware of the Italian masons in propagenda due

 

[pengaleng]

I am taking the piss its true. But do only 2 proper genders exist according to you then?

2 sexes do. gender is as varied as consciousness.

I dont even understand how this is a fucking argument tbh

 

[pengaleng]

Perhaps one of the problems is that anyone starting to read some gender critical blogs and websites will immediately come away with a huge amount of disinformation. They will be told it's been proved most transsexuals have a sexual fetish called autogynephilia. They will be told it's been proved that trans women commit violent offences at the same rate as men, they will be told a man who makes rapes jokes has called himself a woman and demanded a senior role in the Labour Party, that a trans indenitified male demanded Top Shop let men in their changing rooms and Top Shop complied because they were scared, that Jessica Winfield had to be moved from a women's prison because she was sexually harassing fellow inmates and that an NHS worker tried to force a woman to have a smear test against her wishes.

They will probably be shown lots of tweets from anonymous teenagers without any mention of the abuse and in the past violence that has come from the trans critical side, they will have the proposed new law completely misrepresented as meaning any man could just fill out a form and demand access to a womens refuge. And that one man in Canada pretended to be trans and sexually assaulted someone without any mention that this is the only time it has happened in the world, and that trans women have been accessing womens support services for years now without incident. They might even be shown websites like transcrime that list criminal offences committed by trans people as if this is representative, and be told huge numbers of children are being given drugs to stop puberty when in reality the number is tiny. They will be told studies showing rates of being victims of crime or suicide attempts by trans people have been debunked, and that a study has proved half of trans prisoners are sexual offenders. And on and on and on. None of these things are true on close inspection, and they represent the milder side of trans critical feminism, they might be told a lot worse.

And they will probably come out of it hating trans people, and repeating these myths, all of which have been repeated on this thread. And when trans people get upset and angry about what they recognise as a highly orchestrated propaganda campaign then their emotional and understandable reaction to that will be used against them to prove that trans people really are aggresive and nasty and refuse to have a debate. And then they will take the red pill and believe the oppressed is the oppressor and Sheila Jeffries and Venice Allan will congratulate themselves on a job well done. Same tactics that have been used against marginalised groups throughout history, and this time being used by people on the left.

 

[MochaSoul]

All those who changed yer mind on issues say "I".

I.