Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Pickman's model]

It's all fucking doomed and going to shit isn't it....which is why we see enraged working class men infuriated at being lectured on the (personal) male privilege...and worse, getting shitty hashtags ('NotAllMen') quoted back at them. Leaves them nowhere to go except facing the scorn of the middle classes. Obviously, when we seek to define personal identity down to every last detail (Like the different sorts of trans people?)...then it is so very easy to quote some liberal claptrap as we slip between a collective identification (class)...for it all to fall apart when people refuse to accept some overweening principle (privilege) which they know does not apply to themselves. Yes, even less contested issues regarding race and racism....where do those of us without black skin but with epicanthic folds sit? It is a recipe for eternal argument, debate, name-calling and hate...and as such, beloved of power mongers who fear the wrath of the undifferentiated mob above all else.

yeh divide and rule

 

[8ball]

View attachment 125526
and i don't know what's wrong with number 7's arms

I think someone just realised a lot of them looked the same so made a random change.
Leading to misdiagnoses of gender confusion in kids with wonky arms, no doubt.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think someone just realised a lot of them looked the same so made a random change.
Leading to misdiagnoses of gender confusion in kids with wonky arms, no doubt.

That figure is clearly body popping.

 

[kabbes]

That figure is clearly body popping.

What’s your opinion of that Mermaids messaging, out of interest?

 

[smokedout]

I just keep coming back to look at this again, a powerpoint slide from a Mermaids teaching session the other day. Notice that all the gender identities have different body shapes, scaling from the busty hourglass barbie far left to the big manly shoulders of GI Joe. How is this progressive, instead of saying to kids look at this harmful nonsense that society is telling you, it just says pick one, choose which of these 2D characters you identify as. And femininity is pale pastels, manliness comes in shades of army.

View attachment 125518

Is there any wider context for this other than just a photo?

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's all fucking doomed and going to shit isn't it....which is why we see enraged working class men infuriated at being lectured on the (personal) male privilege...and worse, getting shitty hashtags ('NotAllMen') quoted back at them. Leaves them nowhere to go except facing the scorn of the middle classes. Obviously, when we seek to define personal identity down to every last detail (Like the different sorts of trans people?)...then it is so very easy to quote some liberal claptrap as we slip between a collective identification (class)...for it all to fall apart when people refuse to accept some overweening principle (privilege) which they know does not apply to themselves. Yes, even less contested issues regarding race and racism....where do those of us without black skin but with epicanthic folds sit? It is a recipe for eternal argument, debate, name-calling and hate...and as such, beloved of power mongers who fear the wrath of the undifferentiated mob above all else.

If class struggle that disregards other forms of systemic oppression was going to work it would have worked by now.

And 'systemic' means it's not about you as an individual. Intersectional politics do not require anyone to take personal responsibility for their privileges as men, white people or whatever else; only that they acknowledge that those privileges exist and listen to other people when they describe their own subjective experiences. I will admit this is not a concept that is always expressed as well as it could be.

 

[kabbes]

Is there any wider context for this other than just a photo?

Can you give an example of a wider context that would make it acceptable?

 

[Wilf]

He's not a swappie (unless he's changed party very recently). And while he's been an utter arse on this thread he's right about Bea Campbell, nobody should have anything to do with that piece of shit.

Yep, certainly with regard to Bea Campbell OBE. In fact I wanted to make the same point, but the thread had got even more, ahem, 'energetic' so I couldn't find a spot to even say that.

Oh and fuck off Ralph.

 

[Treacle Toes]

What’s your opinion of that Mermaids messaging, out of interest?

I'll be honest, I have bookmarked it to find out more when I have more time. Sneaky posting from work just now.

I don't think I can form an informed opinion based on that graphic alone tbh. I want to know what is being said to accompany and explain it...I want to hear the discussion that is being had ITMS? I also want to know where the hell men with long hair are and why they are not being depicted which I suppose is an example of it trying to reflect gender diversity/a spectrum and failing because it's a very crude graphic which can't do the subject justice on it's own.

Anyone have a link to the full presentation?

 

[smokedout]

Is there any wider context for this other than just a photo?

Ok found it, it wasn't a teaching session given to children but old bill and without knowing how that diagram was being discussed it's difficult to comment on it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Bookmark:
For Professionals

Link to resources page...might find the context/presentation materials here?

 

[RainbowTown]

It's all fucking doomed and going to shit isn't it....which is why we see enraged working class men infuriated at being lectured on the (personal) male privilege...and worse, getting shitty hashtags ('NotAllMen') quoted back at them. Leaves them nowhere to go except facing the scorn of the middle classes. Obviously, when we seek to define personal identity down to every last detail (Like the different sorts of trans people?)...then it is so very easy to quote some liberal claptrap as we slip between a collective identification (class)...for it all to fall apart when people refuse to accept some overweening principle (privilege) which they know does not apply to themselves. Yes, even less contested issues regarding race and racism....where do those of us without black skin but with epicanthic folds sit? It is a recipe for eternal argument, debate, name-calling and hate...and as such, beloved of power mongers who fear the wrath of the undifferentiated mob above all else.

Thank fuckity fuck the season is turning and it will be nicer to be outside, fiddling with seedlings, rather than sitting bored and hateful over a keyboard.

There is a very real concern here. And we're seeing it across the board in all areas of society now. Increasingly. A deepening and frightening polarization not only politically, socially and economically but now also in gender issues (and also amongst each gender themselves). Yes, it always been thus, of course. But the difference now is that it's becoming far,far more angry and intolerant. Driven by resentment and an increasing sense of marginalization. And sadly, I think it's only going to get even worse.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'll be honest, I have bookmarked it to find out more when I have more time. Sneaky posting from work just now.

I don't think I can form an informed opinion based on that graphic alone tbh. I want to know what is being said to accompany and explain it...I want to hear the discussion that is being had ITMS? I also want to know where the hell men with long hair are and why they are not being depicted which I suppose is an example of it trying to reflect gender diversity/a spectrum and failing because it's a very crude graphic which can't do the subject justice on it's own.

Anyone have a link to the full presentation?

It says where on a spectrum might you be, not where on the spectrum. So they're not necessarily saying that this 'spectrum' of confusing and strange toilet-door people is the one and only means of comprehending gender identity.

 

[bimble]

Is there any wider context for this other than just a photo?

Yep that photo was taken at a training session given to police in Leeds. I hope it is not shown to children but that kind of begs the question why barbie & GI Joe. I can't imagine any context in which this graphic is a good idea.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It says where on a spectrum might you be, not where on the spectrum. So they're not necessarily saying that this 'spectrum' of confusing and strange toilet-door people is the one and only means of comprehending gender identity.

It also states at the top that 'gender identity is also on a spectrum'. Not sure what the 'also' refers to.

 

[MochaSoul]

It's all fucking doomed and going to shit isn't it....which is why we see enraged working class men infuriated at being lectured on the (personal) male privilege...and worse, getting shitty hashtags ('NotAllMen') quoted back at them. Leaves them nowhere to go except facing the scorn of the middle classes. Obviously, when we seek to define personal identity down to every last detail (Like the different sorts of trans people?)...then it is so very easy to quote some liberal claptrap as we slip between a collective identification (class)...for it all to fall apart when people refuse to accept some overweening principle (privilege) which they know does not apply to themselves. Yes, even less contested issues regarding race and racism....where do those of us without black skin but with epicanthic folds sit? It is a recipe for eternal argument, debate, name-calling and hate...and as such, beloved of power mongers who fear the wrath of the undifferentiated mob above all else.

Thank fuckity fuck the season is turning and it will be nicer to be outside, fiddling with seedlings, rather than sitting bored and hateful over a keyboard.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It says where on a spectrum might you be, not where on the spectrum. So they're not necessarily saying that this 'spectrum' of confusing and strange toilet-door people is the one and only means of comprehending gender identity.

I know it's asking the question Frank. It leaves me with loads of questions though.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Lol. It really frustrates me that people don't know what solidarity means.

"Solidarity is sticking together... UNTIL WE DISAGREE THEN NO Solidarity FOR YOU "

Jokers.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Seems to be a hidden group as doesn't come up in a search. Private invite only?

 

[Pickman's model]

It also states at the top that 'gender identity is also on a spectrum'. Not sure what the 'also' refers to.

we're told this is from a powerpoint presentation. so it's not too great an intellectual leap to work out the also refers back to what was on the previous slide.

raise your game, lbj, you've submitted some good posts on this thread, but also some clangers.

 

[MochaSoul]

Seems to be a hidden group as doesn't come up in a search. Private invite only?

Yes, it's a secret group. I can understand that, seeing as they accuse TERFs of doxxing them.

 

[smokedout]

Yep that photo was taken at a training session given to police in Leeds. I hope it is not shown to children but that kind of begs the question why barbie & GI Joe. I can't imagine any context in which this graphic is a good idea.

Possibly in trying to explain gender stereotypes to coppers? Which I suspect might require a certain amount of over-simplification.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I know it's asking the question Frank. It leaves me with loads of questions though.

It doesn't really matter what they teach coppers in these training thingies anyway, in the same way that explaining to your dog exactly why you're so disappointed with his behaviour is a waste of effort.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep that photo was taken at a training session given to police in Leeds. I hope it is not shown to children but that kind of begs the question why barbie & GI Joe. I can't imagine any context in which this graphic is a good idea.

poverty of imagination

 

[bimble]

google suggests that the image was not created recently, has been around for a while. Maybe not made by Mermaids.
Here it is in its full glory.

It shows up in various places such as
Self Reflection: Analyzing Our Own Gender Identities - Gender Spectrum

 

[littlebabyjesus]

we're told this is from a powerpoint presentation. so it's not too great an intellectual leap to work out the also refers back to what was on the previous slide.

raise your game, lbj, you've submitted some good posts on this thread, but also some clangers.

As is your wont, you've jumped on the least important bit of the post. The point is that they're not asking whether or not gender lies on a spectrum. They are stating that it does.

 

[kabbes]

It also states at the top that 'gender identity is also on a spectrum'. Not sure what the 'also' refers to.

There was probably an earlier slide that reminded the viewer that “sexuality is on a spectrum”. It would then make sense to say “this thing is also on a spectrum”. Wrong, but sensical.

 

[MochaSoul]

Lol. It really frustrates me that people don't know what solidarity means.

"Solidarity is sticking together... UNTIL WE DISAGREE THEN NO Solidarity FOR YOU "

Jokers.

You don't actually have to disagree. Kiri Tunks simply appealed to dialogue and she became the target of a petition to oust her from NUT where she's been doing a great job by all accounts.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There was probably an earlier slide that reminded the viewer that “sexuality is on a spectrum”. It would then make sense to say “this thing is also on a spectrum”. Wrong, but sensical.

Again, you're not going to get the world's most progressive or insightful thinkers teaching half-day 'insert thing here awareness' courses to police officers in Leeds.

 

[Pickman's model]

As is your wont, you've jumped on the least important bit of the post. The point is that they're not asking whether or not gender lies on a spectrum. They are stating that it does.

yeh you say that now, just after wondering what the also referred to. perhaps if you'd kept up with what else i'd said on this thread you wouldn't jump on that with such enthusiasm like you'd made an amazing point: and maybe you haven't read the article MochaSoul linked to which explores the issue of gender as a spectrum

The idea that gender is a spectrum is a new gender prison | Aeon Essays