Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[8ball]

More than a fair enough question considering. If one thinks of themselves as male, gender neutral pronouns and invasive surgery seem odd 'trophies' to me.

I guess if we're talking about sec rather than gender identification it makes sense. It also assumes that feelings were the same before and after the surgery, I guess.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I guess if we're talking about sec rather than gender identification it makes sense. It also assumes that feelings were the same before and after the surgery, I guess.

Opting for surgery changes that? Or not?

 

[8ball]

Opting for surgery changes that? Or not?

I mean your opinions may not be the same as they were before surgery. Not that the change was necessarily caused by it, but people sometimes change their mind about things.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I can't say what Nigel's agenda is aside from not being keen on terfs. Or at least some terfs.

Toeing the party line.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

This is a good read, I thought, and mentioned something I alluded to earlier. :

The India Effect: (what Celebrity Big Brother can teach us about gender politics.)

It is a fact that no natal woman has ever felt the need to approach another, and shout at her that she is a real woman. And in return, no natal woman has ever felt the need to say to another, of course you are and I totally respect that. Such an exchange serves only to reveal that neither party wholly believes what they are saying. And so here lies the crux: trans women know they are not women in any concrete, material sense, which is what has given rise to all the various mental gymnastics regarding sexed brains and souls trumping the bare facts of ones reproductive system. In an attempt to relieve distress and provide a theoretical framework for validation, the truth must necessarily be bent, squeezed, and hammered square into a round hole.

 

[smokedout]

No, you'll find it in 'Whipping Girl'. I quoted the passage somewhere above.

Seriously, I think you'll find it's not B or L who have to do mental gymnastics. You only have to look at 'lewd trans' accounts on Twitter to see this is a thing.

But no-one has ever denied that autogynephilia exists, Serano's argument is that female embodiment fantasies are a symptom rather than a cause of transsexuality. That seems very persuasive to me, it seems quite likely that trans women who experience gender dysphoria and are attracted to other women might experience some confusion about their bodies and their sexuality at puberty - but most people seem to report it goes away as they get older or come out. It also doesn't surprise me that when non-typical gender presentation and behaviours have until recently beeen highly taboo that some people might have developed a fetishistic relationship to their gender identity. And it finally doesn't suprise me that trans women might have sexual fantasies about having sex as a woman, because that seems to be perfectly congruent with reported experience of gender dysphoria such as revulsion of, or discomfort with, primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

 

[MochaSoul]

This is a good read, I thought, and mentioned something I alluded to earlier. :

The India Effect: (what Celebrity Big Brother can teach us about gender politics.)

For as Willoughby pointed an accusatory finger at Amanda Barrie and shouted that she is a real woman, so too do transactivists and their supporters point fingers at the masses, shouting that there can be no debate; that trans women are women, and if we do not align with this new idea we can consider ourselves terrible people, dicing on the wrong side of history. To which the general response can be summed up neatly as, ‘Yes darling! Of course you are and I totally respect that.’

... and if you don't you're a TERF and a bigot and how dare you, a woman, be so fucking insensitive and uncaring and selfish.

 

[smokedout]

If anything I'd say autogynephilia is evidence of some kind of gender discord that we don't understand the mechanisms for yet, rather than the cause of it.

 

[TopCat]

I'm learning to drive (very belatedly) and looked up the statistics for male v female first time pass rates which were depressing as hell. I find that stuff interesting. Failed twice so far, femininely, despite finger-lengths.

Were you bought tools as a lass and indulged when trouble came to the door?

 

[8ball]

If anything I'd say autogynephilia is evidence of some kind of gender discord that we don't understand the mechanisms for yet, rather than the cause of it.

It would seem odd if people who were very gender discordant didn't have fantasies of a life where this wasn't the case.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

If you know you are male, why do you have a woman's name and use a gender neutral pronoun? Genuine questions.

I answered both questions up the board, I don't care about pronouns.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

This is a good read, I thought, and mentioned something I alluded to earlier. :

The India Effect: (what Celebrity Big Brother can teach us about gender politics.)

She's an amazing writer and nails it (and a bunch of other things in her other pieces)

 

[Thimble Queen]

I answered both questions up the board, I don't care about pronouns.

So you don't prefer they, then? I'm confused. I saw you posted about pronouns before but I've only dipped in an out the thread. If you could point me to posts where this is covered that would be great.

 

[Athos]

But no-one has ever denied that autogynephilia exists, Serano's argument is that female embodiment fantasies are a symptom rather than a cause of transsexuality. That seems very persuasive to me, it seems quite likely that trans women who experience gender dysphoria and are attracted to other women might experience some confusion about their bodies and their sexuality at puberty - but most people seem to report it goes away as they get older or come out. It also doesn't surprise me that when non-typical gender presentation and behaviours have until recently beeen highly taboo that some people might have developed a fetishistic relationship to their gender identity. And it finally doesn't suprise me that trans women might have sexual fantasies about having sex as a woman, because that seems to be perfectly congruent with reported experience of gender dysphoria such as revulsion of, or discomfort with, primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

Why does it matter what percentage of non-androphilic trans women are autogynephilic, and why?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

This is a good read, I thought, and mentioned something I alluded to earlier. :

The India Effect: (what Celebrity Big Brother can teach us about gender politics.)

"Rejection as self fulfilling prophecy is not my idea of a good time."

YES.

And:

[QUOTE}The problem is that while you can perhaps legislate for speech and expression, you cannot legislate for conviction. In other words, you might be able to force people to say a certain thing, but you cannot force them to truly believe it. The contestants in the Big Brother house felt bound by enough social pressure to express a belief in Willoughby as female, (as I too feel bound by enough social pressure to concede, as a matter of courtesy, female pronouns to an individual I do not, in fact, believe to be female,) but their true feelings leaked fast out of every interaction they shared. Crucially, it was in this gap between expression and belief that so much of India’s distress seemed to lie[/QUOTE}

 

[comrade spurski]

Please stop poisoning the well with your dumb-ass ad hominems. Please engage with the argument I am making. Thank you.

There are not enough to do some of your posts justice.

Your levels of rudeness and arrogance are only matched by the levels of your lies and hypocrisy.

You claimed
"....my replies have always been courteous even where I've had abuse hurled at me on here."
And yet you continuously insult people.

If you are going to act like a rude fuckwit at least accept that people have the right to call you out on it.

 

[MochaSoul]

What's the difference between calling a transwoman a man and seeing them as one?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

But no-one has ever denied that autogynephilia exists, Serano's argument is that female embodiment fantasies are a symptom rather than a cause of transsexuality. That seems very persuasive to me, it seems quite likely that trans women who experience gender dysphoria and are attracted to other women might experience some confusion about their bodies and their sexuality at puberty - but most people seem to report it goes away as they get older or come out. It also doesn't surprise me that when non-typical gender presentation and behaviours have until recently beeen highly taboo that some people might have developed a fetishistic relationship to their gender identity. And it finally doesn't suprise me that trans women might have sexual fantasies about having sex as a woman, because that seems to be perfectly congruent with reported experience of gender dysphoria such as revulsion of, or discomfort with, primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

The point is that transsexuals fall into two groups separated by sexual orientation. Why is this a problem for those transsexuals who are heterosexual?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

There are not enough to do some of your posts justice.

Your levels of rudeness and arrogance are only matched by the levels of your lies and hypocrisy.

You claimed
"....my replies have always been courteous even where I've had abuse hurled at me on here."
And yet you continuously insult people.

If you are going to act like a rude fuckwit at least accept that people have the right to call you out on it.

Get a grip.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

One is explicit, the other shared with the self.

 

[comrade spurski]

Get a grip.

Of What?
Or do you mean stop pointing out you sometimes are a hypocrite?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

One is explicit, the other shared exclusively with the self.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Of What?
Or do you mean stop pointing out you sometimes are a hypocrite?

I am consistent. And never a hypocrite.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

So you don't prefer they, then? I'm confused. I saw you posted about pronouns before but I've only dipped in an out the thread. If you could point me to posts where this is covered that would be great.

Seriously, who gives a fuck about pronouns.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Why does it matter what percentage of non-androphilic trans women are autogynephilic, and why?

Transgender ideologues hate homosexual transsexuals.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

If anything I'd say autogynephilia is evidence of some kind of gender discord that we don't understand the mechanisms for yet, rather than the cause of it.

Please define 'gender'.

 

[comrade spurski]

Seriously, who gives a fuck about pronouns.

You do ...cos you insist on using one's you think appropriate even when others have said they do not like that particular one being used to describe them.

The term "homosexual" is not an insult. I have mates who do not like being referred to as homosexual. They prefer the word gay.
Why would anyone ignore that and chose to call them homosexual, knowing it'll just upset or piss them off?
That is the equivalent of what you have done.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Seriously, who gives a fuck about pronouns.

There's no need to be rude. As I said they were genuine questions and the pronouns were only one part of it... Why do you have a lady's name if you know you are a man? And why go through the surgery? If the questions are too personal that's absolutely fine, no obligation to answer

 

[Treacle Toes]

I answered both questions up the board, I don't care about pronouns.

If you don't care about pronouns, or being seen as female why did you have surgery? I know these are personal questions but your opinions on this thread confuse me given your own choices.

 

[comrade spurski]

I am consistent. And never a hypocrite.

No you are not.
And yes you are
You claim to "always being courteous" When you clearly ain't.