Athos
Well-Known Member
Indeed. The idea that it's absurd to define sex with reference to reproduction is ridiculous.
Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?
- Thread starter The Flying Pig
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Indeed. The idea that it's absurd to define sex with reference to reproduction is ridiculous.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
True dat.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
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Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
The height and difficulty of the jump are consistently overstated. Anyone who has gone through 2-3 visits to the GI Clinic would already have had these opinions on file by qualifying individuals. I don't think a two-year period of 'living as a...' is particularly onerous either. The panel is merely part of a process, they exist to adjudicate and all they do is review paperwork, one doesn't actually go up and 'plead for one's gender'!
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Both are dodgy. I have never had a satisfactory reply to the question of 'what does it mean for a man to "live as a woman"?'
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i thought the point you were trying to make above was that there were some transpeople in women's prisons who held grcs.
but given your abject failure to prove the point over three attempts, it's no great surprise you're trying to put the ignoble episode behind you, now preferring to pursue comparisons of 'sexual offences' rather than your previously stated crimes of 'sexual violence'.
have you any evidence martin ponting/jessica winfield possesses a grc?
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bimble
floofy
Did you go through the process of proving this about yourself and end up none the wiser? Its quite funny, in a bleak sort of way.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
and another thing, the independent reported that winfield's segregation was not due to harassment or similar of other prisoners. is it your contention that the independent story is fake news?
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Yes, I did, in a funny, bleak kind of way. I kept to my preferred uniform of black jeans, band tshirt and some form of boots on my feet yet I got through the process fine. I saw an awful lot of what I would describe as 'parodies of womanhood' as well as, of course, the majority of people just trying to live their lives. It's the latter who are truly silenced in this debate.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
On the issue of 'trans women are women' I've done two videos with my friend Rya Jones (who doesn't actually agree with me on this). The first one is here, with a short write-up:
‘Transwomen’ are not Women
The second one is here, and is a debate:
The point I make in the first video about culture is carried over to the second video: it is my belief that 'trans women' attain only a limited understanding of what it is to live 'as a woman' in a world of men: this is a 'thin cultural understanding' which it limited to more performative aspects, like identification with artefacts and performative femininity. The 'thick' understanding comes from the material consequences of living in a female sexed body in a world of men, and as I state int he second video, we can twist ideas of gender presentation, pass Gender Recognition Acts and legislate for trans equality all we like, but at the end of the day there's always one biological sex class left to pick up all the shit. And the 'thick' understanding of what it means to be a woman in this world is based upon the hard graft this entails.
The remaining key points in the debate are:
‘Transwomen’ are not Women
The second one is here, and is a debate:
The point I make in the first video about culture is carried over to the second video: it is my belief that 'trans women' attain only a limited understanding of what it is to live 'as a woman' in a world of men: this is a 'thin cultural understanding' which it limited to more performative aspects, like identification with artefacts and performative femininity. The 'thick' understanding comes from the material consequences of living in a female sexed body in a world of men, and as I state int he second video, we can twist ideas of gender presentation, pass Gender Recognition Acts and legislate for trans equality all we like, but at the end of the day there's always one biological sex class left to pick up all the shit. And the 'thick' understanding of what it means to be a woman in this world is based upon the hard graft this entails.
The remaining key points in the debate are:
- I reframe the debate over 'trans women are women' as being in reality all about 'what it is to be a man' because and then argue...
- ...transgender 'women' claiming women's culture and spaces for themselves pushes women out of the way, 'trans women' become colonists of women's lives, culture and spaces rather than immigrants (or, as I coined some years ago, 'refugees from masculinity').
- Rya goes out of the way to avoid attaching any significance to biology to the definition of 'woman' reducing it instead to a social category, which I disagree with strongly.
Funny how The Mail and The Sun becomes such bastions of integrity and honest reporting when it serves some people's purpose.
I'd really urge people, whatever their position, to view any stories in the tabloid press about trans women with the same kind of scepticism you might if they were about benefit claimants. It doesn't help the debate that lies in Murdoch's rags keep getting presented as credible on this thread.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you seem to have forgotten how exercised you were about transpeople in women's prisons harassing the natal women inmates. perhaps you'd like to address that little issue of your lying before we move too far further on, being as until you do i don't see how any more unsourced claims you make can be believed.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I wouldn't have a problem with it if it said 'trans women welcome' tbh. The way they're phrasing it is really off-putting.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Don't go then.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Excellent. Cis women shouldn't go because people who "self-identify" as women are more important.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
Essentially it's saying 'women's bike ride: all welcome'.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
'Cis woman' = 'adult human female who identifies with the cultural stereotypes our society dictates for women, and any material consequences thereof.'
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I won't, and neither will lots of other women (you know, the ones they're trying to attract) either, I expect.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
How exactly does making it clear that trans women and non binary people are welcome imply that cis women are less important? The only people that wording excludes are (a) men and (b) bigots who are so offended by the existence of trans people that they’d rather exclude themselves than attend the same event as them.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
What's a man tho?
No self-defining men want to answer this?
No self-defining men want to answer this?
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weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
*waves* yes, that's it Nigel, that's why it makes me not want to go, because I'm a bigot, offended by someone else's very existence.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
This one maybe not but I wonder if the Young Labour requirement might not even be illegal. To require of women to self-identify as women to stand for any posts restricted to women. It's all going backwards
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I might go and tell them I self define as a man, shit them right up.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Cool, might pop along, depending on how binary I'm feeling that day.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I didn't see any mention of "Trans women" in the poster.
Miranda Yardley
Willing Warrior.
And therein is the problem: you can bet the lefty men on this board won't support you, as a woman, being allowed to define your own spaces.
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