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Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

I
Nonsense. this is exactly what TERFs wanted and I've seen them celebrating on Twitter. We were rapidly heading towards acceptance for trans people a decade ago when i decided to transition. This whole hate movement, as we see it now, was booted up by the TERF/GC movement by influencing the media, flooding the discourse with fake information and straight up lies + providing the academic underpinning so that they may appear respectable; influencing bodies like the Charities Commission, The Equality and Human Rights Commission, founding any number of organisations/charities designed to water down or over turn good practice that had been long established, flooding schools with advice designed to isolate and cut off support for young trans people and to challenge anti bullying initiatives that were becoming common in primary schools a decade ago, trying to destroy Mermaids and Stonewall, two organisations that have been instrumental in improving conditions for trans people in the UK, creating the appalling LGB Alliance which only ever attacks trans people, attacking and forcing resignations of high profile trans women, influencing government - and we see now the prime minster repeating TERF dog whistles; joining up with the far right, particularly in the US. I will never forget and i will never be gaslighted into believing otherwise, i saw it all with my own eyes.

Most of those articles mentioned earlier, that appeared in the media were written by TERFs/GCs directly or inspired by previous articles that had been written by TERFs in the media. Have you seen the attacks that occur on any organisation or media that is anything less than utterly abhorrent to trans women? They're made potential trans allies scared to speak up. There are now so many fake facts and made up stats out there about trans people i don't think we'll be getting back to where we were for a couple of generations if at all.
Would it be an oversimplification to say that latter-day "gender critical" discourse has become the respectable face of transphobia?
 
It will possibly go smoothly like that. I’m in cold sweats about it as an IR rep though given everyone is in the same union.

your union will probably have an equalities officer (or some such) who may be able to advise. without knowing what union and how they are set up, it may be at branch / regional / national office.

when i was a NALGO rep, one of the important things i learned was when to say 'i am not sure - i will need to seek more advice on this'

and / or see what HR have to say

and / or see if ACAS can offer advice (they do talk to individuals in between getting involved in major disputes)

the appalling LGB Alliance which only ever attacks trans people

strange how often the BBC get them on...

:mad:
 
Not going to post specific examples because it's all horrible and none of it should be signal-boosted.

OK, so you've got nothing.

(Not saying there isn't anything. But I can't see why you'd expect a rational person to take your word for it.)
 
Nonsense. this is exactly what TERFs wanted and I've seen them celebrating on Twitter. We were rapidly heading towards acceptance for trans people a decade ago when i decided to transition. This whole hate movement, as we see it now, was booted up by the TERF/GC movement by influencing the media, flooding the discourse with fake information and straight up lies + providing the academic underpinning so that they may appear respectable; influencing bodies like the Charities Commission, The Equality and Human Rights Commission, founding any number of organisations/charities designed to water down or over turn good practice that had been long established, flooding schools with advice designed to isolate and cut off support for young trans people and to challenge anti bullying initiatives that were becoming common in primary schools a decade ago, trying to destroy Mermaids and Stonewall, two organisations that have been instrumental in improving conditions for trans people in the UK, creating the appalling LGB Alliance which only ever attacks trans people, attacking and forcing resignations of high profile trans women, influencing government - and we see now the prime minster repeating TERF dog whistles; joining up with the far right, particularly in the US. I will never forget and i will never be gaslighted into believing otherwise, i saw it all with my own eyes.

Most of those articles mentioned earlier, that appeared in the media were written by TERFs/GCs directly or inspired by previous articles that had been written by TERFs in the media. Have you seen the attacks that occur on any organisation or media that is anything less than utterly abhorrent to trans women? They're made potential trans allies scared to speak up. There are now so many fake facts and made up stats out there about trans people i don't think we'll be getting back to where we were for a couple of generations if at all.

I pressed like on the post in question because I do think its important to acknowledge the broader culture of violence stuff, and rampant sexism in all its forms.

But I do think it tries much too hard to diminish the role that TERF stuff has played in poisoning the well, and I should maybe unlike it for that reason.

I suppose if the sexism and violent culture stuff has been eradicated or very much diminished on every front over decades then the TERF stuff wouldnt have had the necessary fuel with which to gain any traction in the first place. One of the hideously unfair and dangerous facets of the whole political mess is that trans people are being forced to suffer the consequences of stuff thats been caused by failures in other domains, stuff which they are victims of too, not perpetrators. They are being asked to pay the price for others failures that have never been resolved, shit that has been casting a long shadow over a very long period of time.

But then there are other sorts of victims too. And some issues with the limitations of identity politics, its flaws that can lead to political dead-ends, some of which it has been possible to acknowledge and discuss here over the years.

All of that and more has been exploited to set people who should be on the same side against each other, and to impose barriers that enable certain forms of privilege and power to be retained unchallenged, to restrict progress to a narrower slice of the big picture that doesnt actually threaten the status quo in every key area. This doesnt make all the victories for progress totally superficial, but it does limit the gains that are on offer, and leaves some people dangerously exposed and vulnerable.

And there are other sorts of opportunists out there too, such as the socially conservative who've suffered many defeats, who have seen the territory that they can possibly claim is not bigoted and unacceptable to the mainstream shrink. With the trans issues they think there is still room left to play their old games, to indulge in a form of narrow hate that has not yet been fully expunged from acceptable mainstream discourse. Much of the right wing press are doing a similar thing in this country - the powers they serve are still entrenched, but some forms of mainstream progress and the evolution of values over the decades has left them shorter on ideological props with which to motivate their base. They cannot be quite so overt with some forms of their sexism these days, so they've had to get slightly more sneaky about it, and they've seized on the 'trans debate' as a useful wedge, and as if it were one of the last few dog whistles they can resort to without excessive risk of it instantly blowing up in their face.
 
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Would it be an oversimplification to say that latter-day "gender critical" discourse has become the respectable face of transphobia?
I'd say that's as accurate a characterisation as you're going to get.

It's not exactly new is it? Freed slaves were going to rape women and abuse kids. Blacks were after segregation. Gays were going to come for your kids. Now it's trans women. This has more of an intellectual veneer but it's the same beast when you get down to it.

I'm not surprised those who have been complicit are trying to deny it though.
 
Dont start please. Not here.
Don't start what? I've said virtually nothing so far. And anyway, if not now when? And who says?

Not that I am at all keen to enter this toxic debate again. It should bother people on urban that people like me are unwilling to state their views and uncertainties on trans issues. Accusations of transphobia are flung around all too easily. The echo chamber gets smaller and smaller.
 
Don't start what? I've said virtually nothing so far. And anyway, if not now when? And who says?

Not that I am at all keen to enter this toxic debate again. It should bother people on urban that people like me are unwilling to state their views and uncertainties on trans issues. Accusations of transphobia are flung around all too easily. The echo chamber gets smaller and smaller.

People like you?
 
Don't start what? I've said virtually nothing so far. And anyway, if not now when? And who says?

Not that I am at all keen to enter this toxic debate again. It should bother people on urban that people like me are unwilling to state their views and uncertainties on trans issues. Accusations of transphobia are flung around all too easily. The echo chamber gets smaller and smaller.
I know what your views are, and it's not because I read your mind.
 
I'd say that's as accurate a characterisation as you're going to get.

It's not exactly new is it? Freed slaves were going to rape women and abuse kids. Blacks were after segregation. Gays were going to come for your kids. Now it's trans women. This has more of an intellectual veneer but it's the same beast when you get down to it.

I'm not surprised those who have been complicit are trying to deny it though.
This doesn't help either.

The murder of this poor kid is just unspeakably awful. And the toxic trans debate has undoubtedly helped to create the atmosphere in which this kind of thing happens. I've probably contributed to that myself at various points, which I regret. But the toxicity is coming from both sides. Calling trans women men's rights activists, as some on one side routinely do, is a vile and hateful thing to do. But calling rape victims who don't want to see what they consider to be male bodies working in a refuge bigots is also vile, yet that's exactly what the chief executive of a refuge in Edinburgh did. Until both sides in this toxic debate recognise that there are areas of genuinely conflicting interests, the toxicity is going to continue.
 
You said nearly two years ago...
I've enjoyed posting on Urban for the past year and a bit, and enjoyed reading others posts even more. But I'm going to stop now. This whole trans issue is awash with misunderstandings and ill feeling. It's coloured my view of other posters, almost certainly unfairly, but there you go. Too many seem to be oblivious to their encouragement of uniformity, orthodoxy and intolerance, their blinkered take on what is considered transphobic, bigoted etc etc I'll miss some of you. I won't miss others. Bye.

What happened to make you stay? Since your View doesn't seem to have changed.
 
This doesn't help either.

The murder of this poor kid is just unspeakably awful. And the toxic trans debate has undoubtedly helped to create the atmosphere in which this kind of thing happens. I've probably contributed to that myself at various points, which I regret. But the toxicity is coming from both sides. Calling trans women men's rights activists, as some on one side routinely do, is a vile and hateful thing to do. But calling rape victims who don't want to see what they consider to be male bodies working in a refuge bigots is also vile, yet that's exactly what the chief executive of a refuge in Edinburgh did. Until both sides in this toxic debate recognise that there are areas of genuinely conflicting interests, the toxicity is going to continue.
No son, it was your side who created the toxicity with their long history of lies and grotesque twisting of reality. An example of which you have just written. Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre was forced to end its open door policy and give additional security due to threats from TERF's amplified by the usual scumbags, Linehan, Wings, Posie Parker etc etc. There were many threats to kill Mridul Wadhwa and to end the work of the centre. Thats fucking vile.

You don't get to stir the shit and then play the 'blame on both sides' canard.
 
No son, it was your side who created the toxicity with their long history of lies and grotesque twisting of reality. An example of which you have just written. Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre was forced to end its open door policy and give additional security due to threats from TERF's amplified by the usual scumbags, Linehan, Wings, Posie Parker etc etc. There were many threats to kill Mridul Wadhwa and to end the work of the centre. Thats fucking vile.

You don't get to stir the shit and then play the 'blame on both sides' canard.
Why must there be this polarisation? It's a false dichotomy; it's quite possible to respectfully disagree with Mridul's implication that rape survivors who would prefer single-sex spaces are bigots, at the same time as utterly conmdeming the vile abuse she received for saying so.

Apart from anything else, it's a tactical blunder. The idea that anyone who doesn't believe that there should never be any distinction between trans and cis women is a transphobe ends up lumping people who are broadly trans inclusive but have some reservations around a tiny number of edge cases e.g. rape refuges (in reality, most people in this country), in with a hard core of bigots - Christian fundamentalists, social conservatives, and neo-nazis. You'd like to think that most reasonable people would recognise that and treat many of the 'gender critical' arguments with scepticism; but it's clear that many disappear down the rabbit hole.
 
Why must there be this polarisation? It's a false dichotomy; it's quite possible to respectfully disagree with Mridul's implication that rape survivors who would prefer single-sex spaces are bigots, at the same time as utterly conmdeming the vile abuse she received for saying so.

Apart from anything else, it's a tactical blunder. The idea that anyone who doesn't believe that there should never be any distinction between trans and cis women is a transphobe ends up lumping people who are broadly trans inclusive but have some reservations around a tiny number of edge cases e.g. rape refuges (in reality, most people in this country), in with a hard core of bigots - Christian fundamentalists, social conservatives, and neo-nazis. You'd like to think that most reasonable people would recognise that and treat many of the 'gender critical' arguments with scepticism; but it's clear that many disappear down the rabbit hole.
So, you're going to fail to deal with the substantive point that belboid makes here, that littlebabyjesus has propagated a GC mistruth here about the Edinburgh situation (as has pretty much defined this whole 'debate' - like urban posters uncritically regurgating 'gendertrender'), and instead focus on 'polarisation'. Jesus.
 
You said nearly two years ago...


What happened to make you stay? Since your View doesn't seem to have changed.
Someone on here I respect sent me a PM, which encouraged me to stay. Plus there's more to life than just one topic. I've learnt a lot on urban and it can be educational, funny and even inspiring, as well as annoying. As for my view not having changed, I don't have a fixed view on all the issues surrounding this debate. I genuinely would like 'the left' to come to reconciliation, but I don't see many signs of that right now.
 
Someone on here I respect sent me a PM, which encouraged me to stay. Plus there's more to life than just one topic. I've learnt a lot on urban and it can be educational, funny and even inspiring, as well as annoying. As for my view not having changed, I don't have a fixed view on all the issues surrounding this debate. I genuinely would like 'the left' to come to reconciliation, but I don't see many signs of that right now.

Tbf many prominent GC people were pretty quick to drop 'the left', so that might be tricky.
 
So, you're going to fail to deal with the substantive point that belboid makes here, that littlebabyjesus has propagated a GC mistruth here about the Edinburgh situation (as has pretty much defined this whole 'debate' - like urban posters uncritically regurgating 'gendertrender'), and instead focus on 'polarisation'. Jesus.
Sorry, but it is not a 'GC mistruth'. It is hard to find trustworthy sources on what she said initially as there are, sure enough, a hell of a lot of lies around about it, so I won't link to the initial comments, but I will post what she said in response to the subsequent outcry:

it is also critical that we act as proactive bystanders and lead by example as an organisation dedicated to equality and human rights. If what we see/hear from someone is clearly prejudiced and we are not responding to their urgent support need it is also part of our role to provide a space to explore and challenge this, in as kind a way as possible. In order for us to create a safe space for survivors it also needs to be a safe space for staff and volunteers, where everyone feels valued, safe and respected. That must be a priority if we are to be an ethical service provider for all survivors using our service, as well as an employer, taking seriously our role in creating a fairer society; this would be the case for any prejudice experienced be it racism, classism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or transphobia.

She says that her words were taken out of context, but when she provides context, I don't think it really changes anything. It just says the same thing in a nicer way.

Statement
 
What a Needless and tragic loss of a young life. Heartbreaking. Rip Brianna 💔 I'm seeing very moving tributes at vigils on my feeds.

Instead of rehashing the same old arguments maybe we can consider how we might make the world safer and less terrifyingly hostile for trans youth. Because that's what really matters.
 
What a Needless and tragic loss of a young life. Heartbreaking. Rip Brianna 💔 I'm seeing very moving tributes at vigils on my feeds.

Instead of rehashing the same old arguments maybe we can consider how we might make the world safer and less terrifyingly hostile for trans youth. Because that's what really matters.
Exactly and precisely. And people using this thread to argue the toss instead of seeing it as an opportunity for showing solidarity should take a good look at themselves.
 
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