Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

[Athos]

So, you're going to fail to deal with the substantive point that belboid makes here, that littlebabyjesus has propagated a GC mistruth here about the Edinburgh situation (as has pretty much defined this whole 'debate' - like urban posters uncritically regurgating 'gendertrender'), and instead focus on 'polarisation'. Jesus.

It wasn't a mistruth; she did say that.

Its also true that she received vile abuse, as Belboid pointed out.

My point was that it's possible to recognise both of those things.

But we seem to be in a situation where many people prefer to only acknowledge one perspective. That's the polarisation.

ETA: Just seen the last two posts, and they're right that this thread isn't really the place for this, particularly at the moment.

 

[smokedout]

Sorry, but it is not a 'GC mistruth'. It is hard to find trustworthy sources on what she said initially as there are, sure enough, a hell of a lot of lies around about it, so I won't link to the initial comments, but I will post what she said in response to the subsequent outcry:



She says that her words were taken out of context, but when she provides context, I don't think it really changes anything. It just says the same thing in a nicer way.

Statement

So you think survivors should have to put up with racism or bigotry from other users within support services then? What she's saying is entirely uncontroversial, if a service user persistently uses discriminatory language or makes bigoted comments then it's important to challenge them for the safety of those in the group they might be directed at. It's only your interpretation that assumes she is talking about someone with mild gender critical views, as opposed to someone being outright racist or ranting about queers.

 

[Riklet]

Everyones decided that this trans girl getting murdered in the park must have been a hate crime and is getting on their trans rights soap box already with zero evidence.

Dont get me wrong its a terrible thing. Terrible. I just think some preprepared speech from other situations like James Butler of Novara Media has come out with is inappropriate.

I havent read this thread but to me there are more trans people and more visible trans people around. Rather than this gigantic rise in bigotry occuring (supposedly) is this not a factor? I didnt see anyone trans when I was a teenager now there isnt a school in the country without trans kids etc.

 

[danny la rouge]

Everyones decided that this trans girl getting murdered in the park must have been a hate crime and is getting on their trans rights soap box already with zero evidence.

Dont get me wrong its a terrible thing. Terrible. I just think some preprepared speech from other situations like James Butler of Novara Media has come out with is inappropriate.

I havent read this thread but to me there are more trans people and more visible trans people around. Rather than this gigantic rise in bigotry occuring (supposedly) is this not a factor? I didnt see anyone trans when I was a teenager now there isnt a school in the country without trans kids etc.

That’s the same fallacy as ethnic minority people existing leads to racism. That’s putting things the wrong way round.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

yes, if only those pesky minorities went away / kept their heads down, discrimination wouldn't happen....

: facepaw :

 

[smokedout]

Well thanks dickhead cis men for showing that trans people can't even have a space on urban to grieve and discuss the facts that led to a trans child's death without you wading in to go well trans people are bad too actually, look at what this trans person said once, let's make this all about me and my important thoughts.

 

[Clair De Lune]

Everyones decided that this trans girl getting murdered in the park must have been a hate crime and is getting on their trans rights soap box already with zero evidence.

Dont get me wrong its a terrible thing. Terrible. I just think some preprepared speech from other situations like James Butler of Novara Media has come out with is inappropriate.

I havent read this thread but to me there are more trans people and more visible trans people around. Rather than this gigantic rise in bigotry occuring (supposedly) is this not a factor? I didnt see anyone trans when I was a teenager now there isnt a school in the country without trans kids etc.

If they didn't exist, this would never happen?
Sorry I've no idea what your point is

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I didnt see anyone trans when I was a teenager now there isnt a school in the country without trans kids etc.

you did see them but we were all too scared to be open about it. My schools from 1971 to 1985 all had at least one trans person but nobody knew. Instead I took my anti depression pills, saw a shrink and struggled with everything alone and unsupported. And there were thousands of us across the country. Would you like a Section 28 for trans people now? Would that make you happy?

Oh and guess what? Being "invisible" didn't necessarily save us from being bullied.

 

[Clair De Lune]

I have asked for a meeting with my kids school to discuss what they are doing to protect their gay, trans and ND students. Nothing related to this recent event btw, but timely.
As I know the verbal bullying and physical assaults are rife. I also directly know two trans kids who've this year had to leave as a direct result of this hostile and unsafe environment. Im disgusted with the school who will happily fine parents if their children's attendace slips but take no time to consider the impact physically and mentally of being forced into a busy and frankly unsafe environment has. We'd never accept workplace bullying in the way young people endure at school. And I do think that attacks need to be reported as hate crimes because how else do we measure, record and attempt to put in education, support and safety measures to protect these young people if school marks it simply as a fight of unknown origin.

 

[stethoscope]

Sorry, but it is not a 'GC mistruth'. It is hard to find trustworthy sources on what she said initially as there are, sure enough, a hell of a lot of lies around about it, so I won't link to the initial comments, but I will post what she said in response to the subsequent outcry:


She says that her words were taken out of context, but when she provides context, I don't think it really changes anything. It just says the same thing in a nicer way.

Statement

Yes, I know what was said and what happened. You were clearly hiding behind the 'both sides' argument and then dropped mention of it to imply that it was those on the 'pro trans' 'side' that led to it. I take no issue in how Edinburgh Crisis have had to deal with this. I do with prominent GCers and fellow travellers that stirred it up.

 

[Clair De Lune]

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

These are her original comments in the Guilty Feminist Podcast interview, it's pretty clear she isn't calling all rape survivors with mild GC views bigots as was stated upthread. She's obviously struggling to choose her words carefully, as I'm sure anyone would in her situation.








Transcript here: https://forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Mridul-Wadhwa-Guilty-Feminist-transcript.pdf

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I won't post anymore on this subject, just felt it was important to counter what had already been posted with more accurate info.
I must also apologise as I feel responsible for starting this whole thing off in the first place, by snarling at KTB this morning. Should have kept my gob shut.

Look after yourselves everyone

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Thanks for posting that Clair De Lune

The London vigil last night looked very big for a weekday evening:



Another rough week for trans posters on here. I am thinking of you.

 

[stethoscope]

Well thanks dickhead cis men for showing that trans people can't even have a space on urban to grieve and discuss the facts that led to a trans child's death without you wading in to go well trans people are bad too actually, look at what this trans person said once, let's make this all about me and my important thoughts.

Innit.

 

[cesare]

Another rough week for trans posters on here. I am thinking of you.

Me too x

 

[Riklet]

That’s the same fallacy as ethnic minority people existing leads to racism. That’s putting things the wrong way round.

Clearly an emotive subject but not true imo. You cant compare it with racism in this instance. Only if this was actually a hate crime. If it was then I hold my hands up.

And it may well have been a hate crime (which is awful and Its awful that trans people live in fear in 2023) and its sad that ive upset people with my comments so I'll leave it there.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

The London vigil last night looked very big for a weekday evening:
Another rough week for trans posters on here. I am thinking of you.

The Brighton vigil was fucking massive. And yes, another fucking U75 transphobic shitfest. Just fuck off.

 

[danny la rouge]

Riklet OK, well if this was a thread about violence against black people and a young black school kid had been murdered would a bunch of people have been racing onto the thread to engage in whataboutery and to say “ah but was it actually a ‘racist’ murder?”?

So here’s an idea. Why don’t we take the opportunity to show solidarity, empathy and compassion?

 

[stethoscope]

Fucking liberals who would throw their hands up in disgust at similar arguments being made about black and gay people re. visibility or what constitutes a hate crime towards them, etc. quite happy to do it when it comes to trans people.

 

[shroudedincloud]

I get you guys, I just don't understand why this particular victim, vigil--same with that recent disappearance?

We all know people who have been killed in tragic circumstances. I don't know anything about this girl or her life or what the findings of the case were. It feels callous, but think of all the other victims who don't receive this kind of response. I've known them. An article in the local paper, maybe, that's about it.

Will be attending the local vigil. As posters have said, it's an opportunity to show solidarity and caring in the face of a wider problem.

 

[Pickman's model]

I get you guys, I just don't understand why this particular victim, vigil--same with that recent disappearance?

We all know people who have been killed in tragic circumstances. I don't know anything about this girl or her life or what the findings of the case were. It feels callous, but think of all the other victims who don't receive this kind of response. I've known them. An article in the local paper, maybe, that's about it.

Will be attending the local vigil. As posters have said, it's an opportunity to show solidarity and caring in the face of a wider problem.

it's the same with all sorts of things, some things resonate while others don't - it's not predictable. why did people riot after the death of mark duggan and not say smiley culture? let's not get into a hierarchy of victims, it's not a good look

 

[shroudedincloud]

it's the same with all sorts of things, some things resonate while others don't - it's not predictable. why did people riot after the death of mark duggan and not say smiley culture? let's not get into a hierarchy of victims, it's not a good look

Yeah you're right. It just feels like "taking what we can get" and that's based on the whims of... something. Fate? The media?

While I'm not holding my breath for the police to produce a thorough, balanced, report, we still don't have the best understanding of what happened. The 'larger problem' when Sarah Everard disappeared shifted really quickly when it turned out how the police were involved.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way round. This should resonate with the public as standard. I'm sure all sorts of awful people have reasons why it doesn't (or shouldn't).

 

[elbows]

The broader societal context that some things end up being associated with are about stuff that goes well beyond the actual known facts of a particular case. I already commented the other day that there are all sorts of possible factors in this particular murder that I dont know about yet, and I'd rather just say that than start actively speculating about exactly what mix of factors was involved with any degree of pretend certainty. But that doesnt mean I'm going to take issue with the case being used to rally support around broader themes.

The age of the victim is a factor in the response. But so are the various ways that the politics of the broader issues have been in the news recently.

 

[stethoscope]

Meh...

 

[Cid]

Almost didn't go to Sheffield vigil, but my feet walked me out the door and got there... decent turnout. Apart from anything else I think I needed to be reminded of the real people behind this. Of how they aren't the ciphers presented by logic bros (a thing which I am not immune to) or GC types, but just regular folk trying to live their lives. Slightly stupid given that of course I do realise that e.g trans people on urban are 'real people', and they have taught me an enormous amount, but my irl friendship group isn't particularly large or diverse and I guess there's something different about... witnessing? the sense of community, and of shared grief, anger, love.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Never managed to get to a vigil - firstly I don't think there's one anywhere near me anyway - but secondly I have covid and still not recovered well enough to leave the house. Sadly.

 

[ginger_syn]

Almost didn't go to Sheffield vigil, but my feet walked me out the door and got there... decent turnout. Apart from anything else I think I needed to be reminded of the real people behind this. Of how they aren't the ciphers presented by logic bros (a thing which I am not immune to) or GC types, but just regular folk trying to live their lives. Slightly stupid given that of course I do realise that e.g trans people on urban are 'real people', and they have taught me an enormous amount, but my irl friendship group isn't particularly large or diverse and I guess there's something different about... witnessing? the sense of community, and of shared grief, anger, love.

i think thats the problem with these discussions for some they seem to be either an exercise in intellectualism or a way of point scoring and they forget that there are real human beings being affected in their everyday lives by these things.

 

[Karl Masks]

I get you guys, I just don't understand why this particular victim, vigil--same with that recent disappearance?

We all know people who have been killed in tragic circumstances. I don't know anything about this girl or her life or what the findings of the case were. It feels callous, but think of all the other victims who don't receive this kind of response. I've known them. An article in the local paper, maybe, that's about it.

Will be attending the local vigil. As posters have said, it's an opportunity to show solidarity and caring in the face of a wider problem.

Maybe a tipping point. Maybe folk are tired of the hate and bigotry. It's exhausting so god knows what it must be like being trans and having to live it.

By all accounts one in Scotland is pretty big (George Square apparently, I've no idea how many vigils are occuring in Scotland)

 

[elbows]

i think thats the problem with these discussions for some they seem to be either an exercise in intellectualism or a way of point scoring and they forget that there are real human beings being affected in their everyday lives by these things.

In my case what may strongly resemble some hideous intellectual waffling is what comes out when I'm actually desperately trying to connect on a very human level with people regarding the detail of stuff that affects people hugely in their everyday lives, and the struggle to improve peoples circumstances. But I suspect there are some issues relating to neurodiversity in my case the often cause my approach, my use of language, to be at best misguided and at worst something that winds people up and gives the wrong impression of where I'm coming from. I'm unable to effectively bypass this problem, and perhaps maybe the closest I've come on occasions in the past was actually when I lost my cool and ranted loudly at people I thought were being bigoted. But I had to try harder to give that up in recent years for all sorts of reasons including my own health and the unsustainable nature of the clashes, in terms of how much of that sort of thing people and the community could be expected to take. And so we are left with this side of me that talks in maths and buzzes like a fridge