Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

In my case what may strongly resemble some hideous intellectual waffling is what comes out when I'm actually desperately trying to connect on a very human level with people regarding the detail of stuff that affects people hugely in their everyday lives, and the struggle to improve peoples circumstances. But I suspect there are some issues relating to neurodiversity in my case the often cause my approach, my use of language, to be at best misguided and at worst something that winds people up and gives the wrong impression of where I'm coming from. I'm unable to effectively bypass this problem, and perhaps maybe the closest I've come on occasions in the past was actually when I lost my cool and ranted loudly at people I thought were being bigoted. But I had to try harder to give that up in recent years for all sorts of reasons including my own health and the unsustainable nature of the clashes, in terms of how much of that sort of thing people and the community could be expected to take. And so we are left with this side of me that talks in maths and buzzes like a fridge :(
Your posts ITT haven't came across like that at all. Curiosity is fine, it's where I'm at too. Occasionally you just don't have some information. Speculation can be bad, but I don't think it's unfair or "Mr Logic" to try and learn more about a particular situation or what's happening.

We also don't know each other, so: yes I believe this is a horrific event which I hope receives an appropriate response. Some major shifts in how we "handle this issue" in the press and the police, for one. But I won't hold my breath.
 
In my case what may strongly resemble some hideous intellectual waffling is what comes out when I'm actually desperately trying to connect on a very human level with people regarding the detail of stuff that affects people hugely in their everyday lives, and the struggle to improve peoples circumstances. But I suspect there are some issues relating to neurodiversity in my case the often cause my approach, my use of language, to be at best misguided and at worst something that winds people up and gives the wrong impression of where I'm coming from. I'm unable to effectively bypass this problem, and perhaps maybe the closest I've come on occasions in the past was actually when I lost my cool and ranted loudly at people I thought were being bigoted. But I had to try harder to give that up in recent years for all sorts of reasons including my own health and the unsustainable nature of the clashes, in terms of how much of that sort of thing people and the community could be expected to take. And so we are left with this side of me that talks in maths and buzzes like a fridge :(
actually not thinking of your posts as being intellectual waffling ,as your post did seem honestly putting across your questions and it left room for reasonable debate,
 
Thanks. I probably expressed it wrong then, because those werent really supposed to be questions for this time. It was supposed to be an acknowledgement that certain details were unknown, that I didnt want to speak as if those things were known to me, didnt want to make assumptions. But also that I didnt think it was actually necessary for those things to be known before people talked about the case, the broader issues, went to vigils, expressed solidarity etc.
 
That’s the same fallacy as ethnic minority people existing leads to racism. That’s putting things the wrong way round.

Racism leads to ethnic minority people? :confused:

But think I get what you mean anyway.

Regardless, schoolgirl gets murdered by a couple of teenage shitbags. And I wonder about what kind of personal beef leads a teenage boy and girl to do something like this.

Terrible waste of life, fucking awful for her family, I think anyone who is anti-murder generally sees this as a shit thing.
Some of the attempts to grab cheap idpol points (blaming people who bought the Hogwarts computer game ffs!??) are a fucking embarassment and I hope someone is taking care of the family and helping keep their focus away from this stuff.
 
Last edited:
Racism leads to ethnic minority people? :confused:
That's not as daft as it seems at first glance; the idea that racism creates race rather than vice versa - through what it calls 'racecraft' - is the central thesis of an excellent book:

 
That's not as daft as it seems at first glance; the idea that racism creates race rather than vice versa - through what it calls 'racecraft' - is the central thesis of an excellent book:


Fair point, I was a bit tired and not thinking at such an advanced level of wankiness. :D

I don’t think that was what danny was talking about either, but happy to be corrected.
 
you did see them but we were all too scared to be open about it. My schools from 1971 to 1985 all had at least one trans person but nobody knew. Instead I took my anti depression pills, saw a shrink and struggled with everything alone and unsupported. And there were thousands of us across the country. Would you like a Section 28 for trans people now? Would that make you happy?

Oh and guess what? Being "invisible" didn't necessarily save us from being bullied.
I see the poster that I replied to is ignoring me completely. I bet they continue to go round spreading the falsehood that trans people have suddenly appeared out of nowhere like some sort of contagion (or the completely invented ROGD phenomena). And this illustrates how trying to engage with these people is such a waste of time. I only did this to illustrate the point really.
 
I see the poster that I replied to is ignoring me completely. I bet they continue to go round spreading the falsehood that trans people have suddenly appeared out of nowhere like some sort of contagion (or the completely invented ROGD phenomena). And this illustrates how trying to engage with these people is such a waste of time. I only did this to illustrate the point really.

You can prove anything with facts
 
In my case what may strongly resemble some hideous intellectual waffling is what comes out when I'm actually desperately trying to connect on a very human level with people regarding the detail of stuff that affects people hugely in their everyday lives, and the struggle to improve peoples circumstances. But I suspect there are some issues relating to neurodiversity in my case the often cause my approach, my use of language, to be at best misguided and at worst something that winds people up and gives the wrong impression of where I'm coming from. I'm unable to effectively bypass this problem, and perhaps maybe the closest I've come on occasions in the past was actually when I lost my cool and ranted loudly at people I thought were being bigoted. But I had to try harder to give that up in recent years for all sorts of reasons including my own health and the unsustainable nature of the clashes, in terms of how much of that sort of thing people and the community could be expected to take. And so we are left with this side of me that talks in maths and buzzes like a fridge :(

<post bouncing off your thoughts rather than a particular criticism>

I think what I'd say is not that there's anything wrong with taking an analytic approach, but that it's easy to rely on that and lose sight of a broader picture. It's easier for me, and I assume you; I'm not particularly comfortable talking to people at the best of times, and navigating complex and emotive social issues obviously layers a shitload on top of that. Reading up on stuff gives you a sense of objectivity and allows you to compartmentalise things more easily, but it is a limited approach and can lead you to weight certain opinions above others... May work well for some things, but can be a critical failure in others; e.g you could argue it's a major feature of the entire replication crisis. It's also at least somewhat vulnerable to gish-gallop tactics (or something similar); technique of presenting a whole bunch of poorly-sourced arguments that an interlocutor has to take vastly more effort to disprove. E.g think about the time you used to take pouring over research and trying to understand fields you don't have a background in relative to someone saying 'yeah, but x person said we'd get herd immunity', and even if you present that they'll then move onto something like 'but myocarditis'. In context for this thread a podcast I listen to from time to time (embrace the void) recently interviewed Helen Lewis... The host is a lecturer in philosophy and has generally immersed himself in left and progressive cultural shit - he's pretty good at pulling people up on things, and broadly well-informed. But he isn't UK based, and doesn't have the right knowledge of the very UK specific side of this argument, so Lewis is able to just confidently drop in stuff like prison stats that you need to have read a lot of specific stuff to rebut.

It's also an area you can't really research your way through; the research isn't there. In many ways it can't be, because a broader acceptance of trans people (inasmuch as there is one) is a relatively recent thing. Obviously not to diminish the work of pioneers in this field (it's not 'a' field of course, covering everything from the endocrine system, through neurology to sociology, forgive the simplification), but I expect it will be with Brianna's generation that we really start to see wider synthesis of research taking place. Even then the key point is that we are talking about people and they are famously difficult to put into neat categories. This post has been about things you can put on a page and pin down. Trans people are not that; they have an immediate lived reality that can't wait on the pontifications of a largely cis media and academic community.

When I say 'the ciphers created by logic bros/GC types' I mean exactly that... I think they're imagining that someone could just wander into a woman's refuge and get a job. The reality is going to be the usual gamut of background checks and references, previous experience working in mental health, good communication skills, gelling well with other staff at interview etc etc... i.e that person will be a person. And the same goes for people accessing services... As those of Brianna's generation who aren't taken from us get older, they will have lived their entire adult lives in their genders. What are they going to do? In their moment of crisis, are they going to be saying 'well actually I suppose I was technically AMAB, so I'll try and find an appropriate service'? Again, the messy lived reality doesn't conform to a neat set of rules. Same goes for bathrooms; trans women have been accessing them for years without any particular fuss. We get to the point where the metric is who can pass, and that is shitty and unfair particularly for older trans people and those without resources. I mean even writing that out surely it's obvious that these issues are just being used by motivated parties to force positions focussed on trans erasure?

The vigil was as diverse a crowd as I've been in for a while. There's no way I could tell you who fit which 'category'. Because they weren't categories, they were just people, some of whom at some point realised that they didn't fit their assigned gender. Society will have to conform itself to their existence; as it did to POC, as it did to gay people. Those picking holes in their existence, slowing that process by creating abstracted bogeymen can, frankly, get to fuck.
 
as diverse a crowd as I've been in for a while. There's no way I could tell you who fit which 'category'. Because they weren't categories, they were just people, some of whom at some point realised that they didn't fit their assigned gender. Society will have to conform itself to their existence; as it did to POC, as it did to gay people. Those picking holes in their existence, slowing that process by creating abstracted bogeymen can, frankly, get to fuck.

I could have quoted a much larger chunk of your post but just picked that bit to illustrate the overarching theme I am seeking to respond to.

When I was younger I thought I was a straightforward fan of science, but at some point I became aware of the limitations imposed by other baggage that tends to come with that mindset.

More recently I became aware of criticisms that I think are on to something, that may have identified a cause of my unease with that stuff. I'm not capable of picking the most appropriate ones right now or putting my own spin on it so here is one about plants which should still make the crux of the matter quite clear:

Fucking imperial taxonomy and nomenclature:

 
My oldest has just gone to Soho Square - they'd had a commitment earlier this week and hadn't been able to make initial ones, so was really determined to make this one and we appreciate it's important for them. I agree with the fact this has been a rallying point about trans hate crime in general and obviously it is amplified by how young the victim was.
 
i think thats the problem with these discussions for some they seem to be either an exercise in intellectualism or a way of point scoring and they forget that there are real human beings being affected in their everyday lives by these things.
This is exactly what I think and why I think the whole 'DEFINE A WOMAN! GO ON, DEFINE A WOMAN!!!' stuff is bullshit... it's an irrelevance and a distraction. Yes, I know there are legal issues around sex and protected characteristics, but trans people are such a tiny minority that they can exist without 'destroying women's rights and protections'. Ditto 'Well, if archeologists dig you up in 2000 years they'll say you were a man/woman, haha gotcha!' - well it doesn't matter because you've been dead for 2000 years.

I'm quite happy to say that a woman actually is an 'adult human female' and that a tiny proportion of the time, that adult human female is a trans woman, and we can deal with that and let her get on with her life. If there are areas where rights could create some conflict, we can deal with that on case-by-case basis, because we are talking about less than 1% of the population. If there's one thing doing a philosophy degree has taught me, it's that there's a difference between theory and actual lived reality.
 
'GCers' and the usual assorted travellers turning on Jess Phillips because she read out the 'Counting Dead Women' list today and included Ghey. They're actually making more noise about this than the problem of violence against women.

So much shit in the world and you'd go to lengths to make a point about this? Ugh, I fucking despair.
 
A great summary of the usual arguments we find ourselves getting into ...but done respectfully. It's interesting because the arguments themselves get so binary that we all dig our heels in further to 'our side' when things get nasty and that means we aren't able to admit that we might agree with parts of what our 'opponent' has to say. There's no nuance.

 
I've been living in Plymouth for 5 years now. Today was the first time I have experienced transphobic vitriol directed at me. Twat man on a bike asked me if I was a man, then called me a fat tranny. The shouted to keep away from kids and called me a nonce. He wouldn't face me though, kept riding off on his bike. Fucking wanker. I've reported it. dunno, if anything will happen.
 
Back
Top Bottom