Transgender hate crimes recorded by police go up 81%

[Magnus McGinty]

What does it matter whether it was a hate crime or not? A child is dead. Two other children are being accused of killing her. This world gets more fucked up and vicious with every passing year.

Because I’m unlikely to be killed for simply being a white heterosexual male in the UK. Others aren’t so fortunate and it should be recorded as such.

 

[Pickman's model]

What does it matter whether it was a hate crime or not? A child is dead. Two other children are being accused of killing her. This world gets more fucked up and vicious with every passing year.

Further to what's been said, i think it's an aggravating factor in any sentencing. Killing someone because they're trans or gay or their sex or because of the colour of their skin are all examples of hate crimes

 

[xenon]

What does it matter whether it was a hate crime or not? A child is dead. Two other children are being accused of killing her. This world gets more fucked up and vicious with every passing year.

It matters because if there's a prejudice informing such vile actions, that prejudice can be addressed more widely. Or at least those with a public voice should be mindful not to fuel such prejudice, AKA fan the flames. So it's kinda important to recognise.

Simple but no less vile malice can't be addressed or exacerbated in the same ways.

 

[xenon]

Probably should have read to end of thread before replying...

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yes, I understand why hate crime etc, and I understand and support extended sentences, a youngster has died, two other youngster's lives are about to change dramatically. This is deeply saddening, no matter what the circumstance. Just why?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes, I understand why hate crime etc, and I understand and support extended sentences, a youngster has died, two other youngster's lives are about to change dramatically. This is deeply saddening, no matter what the circumstance. Just why?

People can be evil fuckers? I guess we may find out more if charges get to stick.

 

[hitmouse]

Just seen this updated list of vigils:


TOMORROW
Wednesday 15 February

Belfast: 6pm, Belfast City Hall
Brighton: 6:30pm, Victoria Gardens
Cambridge: 7pm, Parker’s Piece
Derry: 6pm, Guildhall
Dublin: 6pm, The Spire
Guilford: 7pm, outside Zero/Friary
Hastings: 7pm, Goat Ledge
Keele: 5pm, Keele University (Forest of Light)
Lancaster: 6:30pm, Dalton Square
London: 6pm, Department of Education
Lowestoft: 7pm, East Point Pavilion
Manchester: 7pm, Sackville Gardens
Shrewsbury: 7pm, The Square
Woking: 7pm, The Pride Hub (Station Approach)

THURSDAY
16 February

Cardiff: 7pm, Tree of Life (Gorsedd Gardens)
Chatham: 6pm, Nucleus Arts (Chatham High Street)
Glasgow: 7pm, George Square
Hebden Bridge: 7pm, Bridge Gate
Portsmouth Cathedral: 6.30, Portsmouth Cathedral
Sheffield: 8pm, Peace Gardens

FRIDAY
17 February

Birmingham: 6:30pm, outside the Hippodrome Theatre
Chester: 7pm, Pride Rainbow Tearooms
Edinburgh: 12pm, Bristo Square
Nottingham: 7pm, Brian Clough Statue
Southampton: 6pm, The Peace Fountain
York: 6pm, St Helen’s Square

SATURDAY
18 February

Derby: 5:30pm, The Spot (Derby City Centre)
Hill: 3pm, Queen Victoria Square
Leeds: 3pm, Park Square
London: 3pm, Soho Square
Newcastle: 6pm, Times Square
Northampton: 4pm, Northampton Unitarians
Reading: 7pm, Forbury Gardens

SUNDAY
19 February

Lincoln: 6pm, Speaker’s Corner (Lincoln High St, near Santander)
Norwich: 1pm, City Hall
Oxford: 6pm, Radcliffe Square
Plymouth: 5pm, New George Street (Sundial)

 

[belboid]

India Willoughby is talking about the murder now on Newsnight. Kirsty is desperate for her not to talk about the 'gender critical' movement and their possible influence in the killing.

 

[krtek a houby]

Have you ever met a copper with an open mind?

For many filth to achieve that, it would take empathy and compassion. Far too few in that culture.

Even self inflicted bullets to the head would have difficulty opening some minds.

 

[Leighsw2]

What does it matter whether it was a hate crime or not?

Absolutely love to hear your views about Stephen Lawrence's murder!

 

[Epona]

Indeed, although I don't know whats worse sometimes, that, or the silence from a lot of urban posters too.

Problem is that there is quite a lot of transphobia here, trying to express anything other than just shutting up is a singularly depressing and oppressive experience.

(I'll probably get a lot of shit just for saying that)

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The two teenagers held have been charged with murder.

 

[Joe Chi Min]

The two teenagers held have been charged with murder.

Seems open and shut, must have extended the 24hrs and ground the little bastards down.

Make no mistake though, this is on the media. It wasn’t two weeks ago I saw a barrage of repulsive comments on Joe.com’s facebook page under the story about Richard Madeley correcting himself when referring to Sam Smith as ‘he’ and not they.

Thousands waded in, almost all with the dehumanising perspective of ‘if you’re born….’

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don't think we have enough to go on to blame the media at this point. Nor 'gender critical' keyboard warriors. For this particular crime at any rate. The general climate of hostility to trans folk should however be a matter of grave concern.

Our own GC contingent has gone quiet, on this thread at least. Hopefully they're taking this opportunity to reflect on some of their language, conduct and attitudes.

 

[Joe Chi Min]

I don't think we have enough to go on to blame the media at this point. Nor 'gender critical' keyboard warriors. For this particular crime at any rate. The general climate of hostility to trans folk should however be a matter of grave concern.

Our own GC contingent has gone quiet, on this thread at least. Hopefully they're taking this opportunity to reflect on some of their language, conduct and attitudes.

This child was bullied for a hell-of-a-long time, and it has only stopped because of the finality of her murderer’s actions. Quite possibly it may be a coincidence that from where I’ve been watching the anomosity toward trans folks seems like it was getting worse and worse every day.

Graeme fucking Linehan is even back in the public eye and what is it, Joanne Rowling is threatening critics now with heavy and costly libel cases.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Absolutely love to hear your views about Stephen Lawrence's murder!

That the problems it exposed in the Metropolitan Police have not yet been resolved.

 

[Karl Masks]

Graham Linehan should be immediately banned. He shouldn' tbe on social media at all. The guy is unstable IMO (not gaslighting, his conduct is seriously fucked up). I have no problem banning people like that, and they were, until Elon

 

[SpineyNorman]

Just going back to what stethoscope said upthread about silence from people who should be allies. I've thought about this a lot and I've definitely been guilty of this.

I used to avoid these threads partly because I don't know a huge amount about transgenderism and related topics and partly because I'm a bit of a coward and was scared of being called a woman silencing misogynist which was the main tactic used by the bigots on people who call them out. I realised about a year ago that this just isn't good enough and being called a misogynist by bigots shouldn't worry me and at any rate is nothing compared to what trans people face all the time. I still don't know that much but I do know bullying, prejudice and bigotry when I see it and I'm not going to bite my tongue because it might upset a transphobe any more. It's too important and they don't deserve such consideration.

 

[NoXion]

Not sure if I'm one of those being called out for their silence or not.

Apparently the whole transphobia thing blew up on this forum while I wasn't looking, and later on when I tried to engage on the subject, I recall basically being pleaded with not to do that. The impression I got being that it's become an incredibly touchy subject here that was liable to blow up again. I'm not totally sure why, since I would have thought that opposition to transphobia ought to be non-controversial on this forum, but I didn't feel like digging into it, so I've mostly left it.

Perhaps I shouldn't be so quiet on this subject any more.

 

[Shechemite]

More solidarity and empathy in an increasingly unpleasant world would be a good thing. No need for me or anyone else to argue against the gleeful callousness of the ‘complaints about a/s are a Mossad/JC scam’ contingent (we won that one after all), but it might help if those who want to have solidarity/empathy from others weren’t so keen on displaying how little solidarity/empathy they’re prepared to give.

 

[Shechemite]

And of course, there’s absolutely no outright headbanger transphobes amongst those who obsess about the Labour files/‘ending the witch-hunt’. None at all

 

[lazythursday]

I post on another forum that has also been torn apart by this issue (with the GC posters eventually leaving the site for their spiritual home of Mumsnet) and I notice that the subreddit r/UnitedKingdom has announced yesterday that it's banning all trans focused discussions because the moderators can't cope with the anti-trans toxicity. This has all got so out of hand and so far away from 'reasonable concerns' about policy changes into outright denigration and dismissal of the trans experience.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Just going back to what stethoscope said upthread about silence from people who should be allies. I've thought about this a lot and I've definitely been guilty of this.

I used to avoid these threads partly because I don't know a huge amount about transgenderism and related topics and partly because I'm a bit of a coward and was scared of being called a woman silencing misogynist which was the main tactic used by the bigots on people who call them out. I realised about a year ago that this just isn't good enough and being called a misogynist by bigots shouldn't worry me and at any rate is nothing compared to what trans people face all the time. I still don't know that much but I do know bullying, prejudice and bigotry when I see it and I'm not going to bite my tongue because it might upset a transphobe any more. It's too important and they don't deserve such consideration.

Yes I think this applies to me too. I do also recognise the (endless) contributions from certain Mr Logic type cis men have been incredibly unhelpful and that's also made me reluctant to engage tbh. I guess you just have to try not to be one of those people though.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I post on another forum that has also been torn apart by this issue (with the GC posters eventually leaving the site for their spiritual home of Mumsnet) and I notice that the subreddit r/UnitedKingdom has announced yesterday that it's banning all trans focused discussions because the moderators can't cope with the anti-trans toxicity. This has all got so out of hand and so far away from 'reasonable concerns' about policy changes into outright denigration and dismissal of the trans experience.

The 'reasonable concerns' were, in truth, just a wedge strategy. This was always the aim.

 

[lazythursday]

The 'reasonable concerns' were, in truth, just a wedge strategy. This was always the aim.

I'm sure you're quite correct about those who have driven this agenda from the start. But I do think there's something different going on in terms of many of the people who've been attracted to the gender critical movement - I've seen acquaintances both in real life and online begin with concerns over specific policy implications (that I don't agree with but are reasonable pointsof argument) only to end up fully down the rabbit hole a year later, hostile to absolutely everything involving trans people and obsessively knowing all the GC talking points from Mermaids and the Tavistock to bogus science about autogynophilia to crazy beliefs about Drag Queen Storytime. It reminds me so much of a similar process that went on with Covid sceptics. Something about the current state of the world that attracts people into what are effectively single issue cults with their own set of absolute truths.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm sure you're quite correct about those who have driven this agenda from the start. But I do think there's something different going on in terms of many of the people who've been attracted to the gender critical movement - I've seen acquaintances both in real life and online begin with concerns over specific policy implications (that I don't agree with but are reasonable pointsof argument) only to end up fully down the rabbit hole a year later, hostile to absolutely everything involving trans people and obsessively knowing all the GC talking points from Mermaids and the Tavistock to bogus science about autogynophilia to crazy beliefs about Drag Queen Storytime. It reminds me so much of a similar process that went on with Covid sceptics. Something about the current state of the world that attracts people into what are effectively single issue cults with their own set of absolute truths.

That's precisely what I mean when I say it was always a wedge strategy. Radicalisation is a bit like indoctrinating a cult member. Start with reasonable sounding stuff you think will appeal to them then slowly inject the really nasty shit.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I post on another forum that has also been torn apart by this issue (with the GC posters eventually leaving the site for their spiritual home of Mumsnet) and I notice that the subreddit r/UnitedKingdom has announced yesterday that it's banning all trans focused discussions because the moderators can't cope with the anti-trans toxicity. This has all got so out of hand and so far away from 'reasonable concerns' about policy changes into outright denigration and dismissal of the trans experience.

in effect meaning that trans people aren't allowed to be visible there?

Just going back to what stethoscope said upthread about silence from people who should be allies. I've thought about this a lot and I've definitely been guilty of this.

Not sure if I'm one of those being called out for their silence or not.

possibly also.

having said that, i did ask somewhere on here - must be a few years ago now - whether people peddling the old bullshit about black men being rapists or gay men being child molesters would be tolerated like people peddling the more recent bullshit about trans people being rapists and / or child molesters.

and i (and others who also challenged transphobia) were the ones told to shut up.

choices seemed to be to carry on and get slung out, walk away (as i'm aware that a number of trans urbanites, along with some urbanites who as far as i know aren't trans but were supportive did), or put a couple of threads on ignore and stay on the 99 or so percent of urban that wasn't this. i chose option C.

 

[dylanredefined]

Absolutely love to hear your views about Stephen Lawrence's murder!

Hate crime pretty much means a harsher sentance to the convicted. Thats it. Can't see a couple murdering a teenager getting anything less than max allready.
It being labelled a hate crime apart from a tick on a spreadsheet changes nothing.
Guess we have to wait for the trial to find out what stupid excuses the murderers have. Its probably transphobia. Might be something even more stupid though.
A cruel and evil act conducted by unthinking idiots.

 

[belboid]

Hate crime pretty much means a harsher sentance to the convicted. Thats it. Can't see a couple murdering a teenager getting anything less than max allready.
It being labelled a hate crime apart from a tick on a spreadsheet changes nothing.

It isn't just 'a tick on a spreadsheet', although that gives away your attitude rather more than you probably intended. And, given the age of the alleged killers, the maximum sentence isn't likely - even David Carrick didn't get the maximum sentence.

• sentencers should first determine the appropriate sentence, leaving aside the element of aggravation related to race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity but taking into account all other aggravating or mitigating factors;
• the sentence should then be increased to take account of the aggravation related to race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity;
• the increase may mean that a more onerous penalty of the same type is appropriate, or that the threshold for a more severe type of sentence is passed;
• the sentencer must state in open court that the offence was aggravated by reason of race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity;
• the sentencer should state what the sentence would have been without that element of aggravation.

 

[Dystopiary]

Given that some people are more likely to be the victims of crime - or specific crimes - it's right imo that that's recognised in the sentencing and in the message given to the public. Hate crime doesn't tend to start with murder, it builds from treating people as "other".