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Tory Leadership contest 2022

I just sat through a "highlight" of yesterday's shouting match, the bit where Sunak says it would be wrong to pass the bill for our spending during covid onto our grandchildren and Truss says that america japan etc have higher rates of debt than the UK so not to worry.
Wondering whether that argument will actually matter to the people who get to choose out of these two and if it does whose side would they land on?
They will most of them have grandchildren but i think they'll probably care more about their own tax bill for the next couple of years than any ideological purity of conservatism.
 
The miners had just won, in 1972, a historic pay rise and sown the seeds of the battle that would bring the Heath Government down a year later. At the same time, and noting the decline in corporate profit and reducing inequality between rich and poor, a small but influential group of capitalists on the right decided that the post war settlement was over as far as they were concerned and that the working class needed taking on. An oil and energy prices crisis in November (sound familiar?) would provide their jumping off point.
Agreed; though some historians of neoliberalism also cite '68 as a moment when increasingly globalised capital decided that the post-war settlement had failed and labour would never stop asking for more.
 
I just sat through a "highlight" of yesterday's shouting match, the bit where Sunak says it would be wrong to pass the bill for our spending during covid onto our grandchildren and Truss says that america japan etc have higher rates of debt than the UK so not to worry.
Wondering whether that argument will actually matter to the people who get to choose out of these two and if it does whose side would they land on?
They will most of them have grandchildren but i think they'll probably care more about their own tax bill for the next couple of years than any ideological purity of conservatism.
Truss is literally offering them the chance to be their greedy, self-serving selves without worrying about the abstract complexities of macro-economic justification; an intoxicating brew for the vermin base.
 
I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?
 
Sasaferrato ! Apart from an estranged great uncle who has dementia I think you’re the only person I’m personally aware of who may get to vote in the choosing of our next pm.
Even if you don’t though who would you pick and why?
 
Agreed; though some historians of neoliberalism also cite '68 as a moment when increasingly globalised capital decided that the post-war settlement had failed and labour would never stop asking for more.

I don't dispute that for some on their side the moment of departure was earlier (or dispute that for some, like Enoch Powell there was never any buy in but more an understanding of the political actualities) but I'd argue the 1972 and 1973 was the point of mobilization
 
I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?
Sunak's argument is that cutting taxes means that more money is in circulation which increases spending which fuels further price rises.
 
I don't dispute that for some on their side the moment of departure was earlier (or dispute that for some, like Enoch Powell there was never any buy in but more an understanding of the political actualities) but I'd argue the 1972 and 1973 was the point of mobilization
Yep. I feel the need to do some more reading around this fascinating period of history.
 
I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?
Don't beat yourself up about this, neither does Truss understand this.
Her motivation here is to appeal to the gut instincts of the selectorate and deploy the only "feel-good" mechanism left to government in the face of neoliberal immiserisation of the workforce.
 
He could achieve that by bumping up my pay to 2008-9 levels in real terms and saying that while he was pm public sector workers would get a triple lock just the same as pensioners.
This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There may be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent... :hmm:
 
This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There may be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent... :hmm:
The accelerated immiserisation of the public sector workforce is part of the multi-pronged attack to undermine, weaken and ultimately wither our public services to the point that privatisation is inevitable. The increasing job vacancies resulting from poor pay and conditions have a 'positive' feedback/cumulative effect on the conditions of those remaining and the subsequent drop-out rates and declining service standards drive more into private provision.
 
I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?
Nobody can know. The economy is way too chaotic for a simple line to be drawn between a tax cut and inflation. Even the direct impacts of a tax cut are tricky to see, let alone something so downstream as inflation.

And what tax? Corporation tax has a very different impact to VAT, which is very different to capital gains tax, which is very different to income tax. You can’t just say “tax”

Meanwhile, if anybody comes up with a reliable and accurate predictive model for inflation, a Nobel prize in economics is waiting for them.
 
I don’t understand these things at all: is it true that if tax is cut now then inflation will get worse or last longer like sunak says?

No. It's the thatcherite idea that letting the proles have spending money is what causes inflation, rather than say every cunt putting their prices up. You might think the current situation of a fall in real-terms incomes preceding a massive inflation spike would be evidence that the thinking on this was outdated, but then if thatcherism could be damaged by something as trivial as overwhelming evidence that it doesn't fucking work it would have died out decades ago.
 
This is anathema to Tory voters because the envy they accuse others of is pure projection. There may be other, more economically sound reasons that aren't immediately apparent... :hmm:
You can already see from cuts to the police that they don't investigate vast swathes of crime, mugging, rape, burglary, theft, more than paying lip service to. You'd have thought tory voters would be up in arms about that already. That's not a cut taxes and this will come back, that's a give them more money and not just in wages before the capacity returns. If there was the 2011 riots again this year I think the police would really struggle to respond on the streets or in the courts to the extent they did then. And I think the sentences in Bristol reflect in part the fear that wider disturbances might occur.

If wages don't rise the he librarians of the future will go and work in other sectors. I could have made a lot more money working in a commercial law firm, for instance, and tho the job might not have offered me some of the resources I enjoy now - I'm a library user too - I wouldn't be in the position I am now where from being comfy a few years back the mattress has become much thinner. My disposable income is lower than its been since 2009, when I first started working two jobs. I now have three.

But my taxes aren't the problem, it's my wages. Even if they bump up the tax allowance level to cover all my wages that's just kicking the can down the road. Inflation will erode the value of my wages further and if inflation stays as it is now I'll have to start dropping things I work to do one by one. And I don't live extravagantly now.

It’s not all about me. There's millions of nurses and council workers and people in adult social care and fe colleges and universities all in the same boat as me. And we're part of the glue that holds society together. We can do without the Tories but we can't do without teachers and nurses and care workers and librarians
 
Nobody can know. The economy is way too chaotic for a simple line to be drawn between a tax cut and inflation. Even the direct impacts of a tax cut are tricky to see, let alone something so downstream as inflation.

And what tax? Corporation tax has a very different impact to VAT, which is very different to capital gains tax, which is very different to income tax. You can’t just say “tax”

Meanwhile, if anybody comes up with a reliable and accurate predictive model for inflation, a Nobel prize in economics is waiting for them.

I can't believe there's a Nobel prize for economics. Why not one for phrenology, or predicting the weather using chicken entrails?
 
But my taxes aren't the problem, it's my wages. Even if they bump up the tax allowance level to cover all my wages that's just kicking the can down the road. Inflation will erode the value of my wages further and if inflation stays as it is now I'll have to start dropping things I work to do one by one. And I don't live extravagantly now.

It’s not all about me. There's millions of nurses and council workers and people in adult social care and fe colleges and universities all in the same boat as me. And we're part of the glue that holds society together. We can do without the Tories but we can't do without teachers and nurses and care workers and librarians

In the last year I could have earned a maximum of about £25,000 as an early career teacher.

Over the same period, the average house in the UK earned £36,000 just by sitting there.

Which do you think got taxed more, me or the house?
 
Do they just put their prices up because they feel like it? I didn't realise it was that simple.
There are various theories about supply and demand.
Sahih/Authentic. - [Ibn Maajah]
During the time of the Prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him), prices of commodities increased, so the people asked him to fix the prices of the commodities for them. The Messenger of Allah (may Allah’s peace and blessings be upon him) said to them: “Indeed, Allah is the One who fixes prices, the Withholder, the Extender, and the Provider.” This means that Allah, the Almighty, is the One who causes the prices of things to decline and rise. He is also the One who reduces the provisions for whomever He wills, and extends the provisions for whomever He wills. In other words, anyone who attempts to fix the prices will be opposing and challenging Allah in what He wills, and will most probably deny people their rights of raising and lowering prices, which Allah has entrusted them with. Then he said: “Indeed, I wish to meet Allah while none of you will have any claim against me for an injustice regarding blood or property.” This is an indication that what prevented him from fixing the price was the fear that he would wrong them in their wealth, since fixing the prices of commodities involves a sort of disposing of them without the permission of their owners, and this is considered injustice. However, if the vendors – for example traders and the like – agreed to raise the prices of what they have out of selfishness, then the ruler would become entitled to determining a fair price for the goods in order to establish justice between the sellers and buyers. This also conforms to the general principle of bringing about benefits and eliminating evil. If no agreement happened between the traders, and the prices went up only due to the high demand and low supply without any deceit, then it would not be the ruler’s right to determine the prices. Rather, he should leave the citizens so that Allah provides for some through others. Thus, it is not permissible for the traders to raise the prices over what is customary, nor is fixing the prices permissible. This is the proper understanding and interpretation of the Hadīth

 
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