Tory Leadership contest 2022

[danny la rouge]

My wife says your a twat by the way…

She can come and explain how “brilliantly” my finances were supported by the scheme that left me without any support at all, then. Joking aside.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I’m agreeing with you on all points expect that the scheme was “brilliantly designed and delivered”. I’m not joking that many of us did not find it so.

Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.

Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace

 

[Sue]

Have we had this?

Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)

 

[spitfire]

Which is funny because she’s spent an absolute mint on PR the last couple of years.

Less funny because it’s our money she spent

I think that's what has led to the dip in popularity. The more she has put her head above the parapet, the more people (Tories are people too!) realised what a vacuum of personality and brains she is.

 

[belboid]

Sunak also consulted with the Labour shadow chancellor to get furlough agreed. One J McDonnell.

 

[danny la rouge]

Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.

Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace

I’m not having a go at your wife. I’m asking you to accept that “brilliantly” was overstating the case.

 

[The39thStep]

Sunak also consulted with the Labour shadow chancellor to get furlough agreed. One J McDonnell.

and the TUC I think

 

[Elpenor]

Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)

I think the distinction in his mind is probably how Alan Clark described Michael Hesletine (someone who had to buy, rather than inherit their furniture)

 

[Sue]

Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.

Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace

danny la rouge's points are clearly not a criticism of your wife or her colleagues. And I'm sure he'd agree that they were overworked, underpaid and all the rest of it. As are many people in the public sector.

 

[danny la rouge]

danny la rouge's points are clearly not a criticism of your wife or her colleagues. And I'm sure he'd agree that they were overworked, underpaid and all the rest of it. As are many people in the public sector.

Exactly. The individual workers are not in question here. Just that the scheme - while broadly doing a good job at short notice - failed many.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I’m not having a go at your wife. I’m asking you to accept that “brilliantly” was overstating the case.

I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate

 

[The39thStep]

Oh yes. I wonder what 'working class/not working class' is in his book. Maybe a doctor or a lawyer or something. (Pretty sure he's not talking about friends who dig roads or work in Tesco or in a call centre or whatever.)

The Tories have some very weird ideas on class. I seem to recall Cameron saying something like that before he was famous when went he went round to people's house for dinner parties they often thought he was a plumber

 

[danny la rouge]

I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate

I know. I’m agreeing with you on all substantive points.

Anyway, this is going round in circles so I’m leaving it there.

 

[Elpenor]

(I would be interested in a thread on the shortcomings of furlough as it’s my area but I never got involved with it due to not being well enough to work when it was rolled out. My gut feeling is that it’s chief success was being rolled out speedily and Sunak taking on non Tory party views. But for another thread.)

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't know what this means. Presumably an anti-trans thing?

She is trying to pitch herself as the anti-everything with the better chance of beating Rishi. That means pandering to Britain's newest import from American politics: transphobia!

 

[The39thStep]

In a TV debate between Sunak, Mordaunt and Truss who would come across better? Never seen Truss as a debater and her delivery in just speaking is poor, Sunak is fairly confident but not sure of him landing any blows. Mordaunt whilst having the tone of a speaking clock does look like she could handle herself and get a few digs in.

 

[elbows]

In regards the furlough discussion, I think it may be fair to suspect that the new poster who started this with the choice of words 'He conned everyone into a furlough' was not making the same sort of sensible criticism that others have since gotten into here. Maybe the words were just poorly chosen, but they appear to reek of some dubious angle about the entire pandemic reality.

 

[MickiQ]

The Tories have some very weird ideas on class. I seem to recall Cameron saying something like that before he was famous when went he went round to people's house for dinner parties they often thought he was a plumber

What he turned up late if at all and cost them a fortune?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

This dogshit idiot - Corbett Dillion - a former Johnson adviser apparently thought the reason Johnson resigned was because he got too 'woke' and 'globalist'.

Boris Johnson's former advisor says he was elected to be 'British Trump'

Just when it couldn't get more difficult to choose between the drama of Love Island and politics, Boris Johnson's former advisor has admitted the prime minister was supposed to be like the 'British Trump' but became 'woke'.Thomas Corbett-Dillon was speaking with Tucker Carlson on life after...

www.indy100.com

 

[xenon]

Most people recognise that the Furlough Scheme was both a necessity and a success.

Just for info, the staff who delivered it were rounded up from elsewhere (my wife’s actual job is tax credits). These workers are already overworked and under resourced were asked to work through the pandemic to administer a scheme that had to be delivered at an unprecedented scale and pace.

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace

This is unfair. DLR is hardly defending the latter or crittizising individuals who worked to deliver the furlough scheme as was. Rather that the scheme didn't go far enough and left people like him. self employed, with nothing.

 

[elbows]

It's made me wonder if the politicians of yesteryear looked like brainless chancers and twats to the grumpy middle aged of their time or if they have really got significantly worse.

They were probably just as bad but perceptions may have been affected by an initially much higher degree of deference, by the media being a bit different and running at a slightly different pace, and by the absence of so much formal 'media training' undertaken by public figures.

The death of deference went hand in hand with a satire boom which offered an early opportunity to see how much low regard and mockery could be sent politicians way.

The original satire boom didnt last that long and ws largely done by a particular class, but much later on we got another form of it, eg the 1980s tories ended up being satirised as subservient vegetables to Thatcher via Spitting Image.

Maybe its fair to say that some periods had much more emphasis on policy, ideology and the big issues rather than personalities. We are at an awkward stage at the moment where there is still much emphasis on the personalities involved but where a big bunch of big issues are increasingly making themselves felt, and where big ideological questions keep threatening to erupt in the mainstream after a long absence that was sponsored by 'centre ground' bullshit.

These tory leadership contests feature plenty of absurdities of personality and ideological ghosts, and only occasional glimpses at an ideological crisis that the tories will have to face more comprehensively at some point. Because it looks like the economic realities of this century are not compatible with the free market, small state nutters that swell the tory party ranks these days. There will be a reckoning over this eventually, but it may not come in a neat and tidy form with sensible debate. Even if it turns out that the tories eventually have no choice but to come to terms with a reality where where a change back to something that has far more in common the old 'one nation conservatives in a post-war consensus era' than it does the rabid free market Thatcherites, the path to get there may still be loaded with bitter denial and all manner of silly panto stuff that is rather opaque in terms of revealing the real transformation that they will have to face.

 

[xenon]

I know your not Danny! My point is that a comparison of the state delivered Furlough Scheme and comparable schemes run by the private sector are instructive in the current Tory leadership debate

Just catching up...
I agree with your broader point. It's insane most of these freaks see the way out of economic strife is more austerity, neoliberalism, Singapor on Thames nonsense.

 

[Cid]

But when I'm prime minister, which is more likely to happen, I won't give Boris Johnson a job.

Except maybe the job Edward Woodward gets given at the end of the Wicker Man.

Sadly I think we're all painfully aware of how poorly he meets one of the job requirements:

came of his own free will, has "the power of a king" (by representing the Law), is a virgin, and is a "fool".

 

[emanymton]

It's made me wonder if the politicians of yesteryear looked like brainless chancers and twats to the grumpy middle aged of their time or if they have really got significantly worse.

I think they have got worse.

My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.

 

[Cat Fan]

I think the furlough scheme was delivered well by the civil service in terms of the operational challenge.

But the political decision to screw over the self employed and creative industries was 100% Sunak's call and he needs to be held responsible for that.

And he allowed widespread fraud via the bounce back loans scheme where billions of taxpayer money was basically handed out with zero oversight.

So while self employed sole traders were screwed over unless they had massive profits, limited company directors could get free loans of tens of thousands then pocket the money and wind up the company.

So I'd give him no more than a 5/10 for his economic performance during the pandemic.

Covid fraud: how bounce back loans paid for cars, watches and even porn

As details emerge, concerns grow about Treasury’s efforts to recover almost £5bn wrongly claimed

www.theguardian.com

 

[elbows]

I think they have got worse.

My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.

Alternatively, there were several decades where industrial disputes were hardly managed properly by the political classes.

And by the early 1990s we got 'black Wednesday' which rather shred any remaining tory claims to be the party of economic competence.

On the other hand, there were lengthy periods where something labelled the post-war consensus gave the impression of there being some forces at work which restrained a parties capacity to go and do completely batshit stuff that went far beyond some kind of uneasy compromise between different forces. By tthe end of the 1970s restraint on this front was toast.

I suppose it is possible that some aspects of cold war worst case planning also acted as a restraint against certain forms of shrinking state services. For example it is possible that the hospital beds to population ratio was kept at a certain level to cater for some of those worst-case war plans, and that certain capitalist extremes were kept partially in check in order to reduce the chances of really losing a big ideological battle.

Whether it be through the simple rise to power of nutters like Thatcher and Reagan or other factors such as energy shocks and years of industrial strife, there were a bunch of assumptions that were no longer safe by the 1980s, any pretense about a post-war consensus having existed was being unravelled with enthusiasm. And one of the affects of that was that certain forms of mask slipped, casting individual politicians in a different light to that which had gone before.

 

[The39thStep]

I think they have got worse.

My theory us that the decline in working class struggle has lead to growing incompetence on their side. They are worse because there is no need for them to be better.

Good point .

 

[MickiQ]

This dogshit idiot - Corbett Dillion - a former Johnson adviser apparently thought the reason Johnson resigned was because he got too 'woke' and 'globalist'.

Boris Johnson's former advisor says he was elected to be 'British Trump'

Just when it couldn't get more difficult to choose between the drama of Love Island and politics, Boris Johnson's former advisor has admitted the prime minister was supposed to be like the 'British Trump' but became 'woke'.Thomas Corbett-Dillon was speaking with Tucker Carlson on life after...

www.indy100.com

If Kemi Badenoch gets in the likes of Tucker Carlson are going to have a brain meltdown.

 

[platinumsage]

Compare and contrast to the £37 billion passed to the private sector for test, track and trace

Lots of crap talked about this figure. For a start it's £29.5 billion, not 37. The vast majority of that was spent on the 500,000,000 free PCR and LFT tests. The notion it was mostly frittered away is bollocks.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Lots of crap talked about this figure. For a start it's £29.5 billion, not 37. The vast majority of that was spent on the 500,000,000 free PCR and LFT tests. The notion it was mostly frittered away is bollocks.

Loading…

committees.parliament.uk

"The Public Accounts Committee says that while NHST&T clearly had to be set up and staffed at incredible speed, it must now "wean itself off its persistent reliance on consultants"; there is still no clear evidence of NHST&T's overall effectiveness; and it’s not clear whether its contribution to reducing infection levels - as opposed to the other measures introduced to tackle the pandemic - can justify its "unimaginable" costs".