Tory lead cut to 6% in poll ..
- Thread starter weltweit
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ska invita
back on the other side
true true, but it doesnt defacto mean that he would lead the libs into a coalition - far from it. the libdems are a centre left party, and the vast bulk of party members are well to the left also. it would be a hard sell on all sides. unknown territory this.
one element of the party that has been silent in this is 99% of the tory party. remember cameron is a fig leaf*, whose been given room to maneouvere as hes done better than the last bunch of leaders, but theres no way they would roll over and let the libs push them around.
*imagine this tory bunch without cameron! theyd be fucked without him
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He said that he would over and over - are you calling him a liar?
And the lib-dems are a neo-liberal party, the orange bookers now own it lock stock and barrel.
And the lib-dems are a neo-liberal party, the orange bookers now own it lock stock and barrel.
would it bollocks. locally they're well used to sucking tory cock - why would it be any different nationally?
Refused as fuck
"ethnic pakistani tosser"
LOL
They're the Euro-centre-right party both the Tories and New Labour are clamouring to be in order to win over their unprincipled dickhead voters.
ska invita
back on the other side
because what you can do at local level is completely different to what you can implement at national level
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yep, and they've been very very busy imposing 'savage cuts' at a local level, often in support of or in arms with the tories - just imagine how much worse, how much more damaging they'd be at a national level.
ska invita
back on the other side
theyre to the left on labour on the majority of issues. the most im willing to concede is that centre is relative, and has moved away to the right. a political compass view of the parties such as this is hardly contentious.
I know there are a lot of dreamers who believe the labour party to be something other than it is, and despite the above i would also call it, in principle, a centre left party. but maybe this is semantics
in some cases, of course. not here though - you're deluded if you think the rank & file will put up anything more than a token resistance to a tory/lib dem coalition. they've been waiting 80 years or so for this ffs (if it even happens).
Refused as fuck
"ethnic pakistani tosser"
theyre to the left on labour on the majority of issues. the most im willing to concede is that centre is relative, and has moved away to the right. a political compass view of the parties such as this is hardly contentious.
I know there are a lot of dreamers who believe the labour party to be something other than it is, and despite the above i would also call it, in principle a centre left party. but maybe this is semantics
Take a look at your graphics again, there. Tell me what they say about the Lib Dems. "To the left of Labour" does not equal "centre-left" even if true.
ska invita
back on the other side
Take a look at your graphics again, there. Tell me what they say about the Lib Dems. "To the left of Labour" does not equal "centre-left" even if true.
read my post - as i said, id concede that the centre has moved to the right in relative terms, and also that i still consider new labour to be a centreleft party by british standards - standards which are frankly depressing.
Refused as fuck
"ethnic pakistani tosser"
So we agree - you're a cunt.
ska invita
back on the other side
as i say, there are serious contradictions between both torys and libs at national level. it wouldnt just be libs who would wriggle - plenty of torys would block it too. im not totally deluded on this - I even even called a lib/con coalition on here at some point (though ive probably called most of the positions by now!
) - i just dont see it as clear cut as some here do. i also dont think they would throw everything away just for a sniff of power with cameron, 80 years or not.by the way, it wasnt that long ago that libs were all accused of tofu munching and sandal wearing...i would rather that simon hughes had taken over from tory clegg, but what can you do.
ska invita
back on the other side
butchers, i cant pretend to know whats been going on at local level to the detail you seem to have, and i bow to your greater knowledge on that, though i think you have showed some partisan opinions at times against libs, and i doubt labour are faultless.
but just for my own pride here, to reiterate, i support libdems in general elections as an act of realpolitik, with no illusions, and for two reasons: bring in PR, and stopping the two-party politics, which as ive alos said before, has been responsible for labours downfall as labour chases tory votes.
as to who will cut the most, they all will in this managerial system we have, though i respect the fact there is a small difference between lab and con on this issue, though not much. I would be very uncomfortable about a lib/con pact, but if it brought in PR i would be happy over all, as it opens up politics to smaller parties that better represent me.
the best result for me would be lab/lib pact with PR going to a referendum, second best lab victory with a referendum on AV (and ideally AV+), third best Con/lib pact with PR referendum.
I think if the Tories get close to 300 seats then - with the Speaker and deputies, Sinn Fein no-shows etc - they'll go it alone with the Lib Dems abstaining on a Queens Speech ie not actively opposing the government. This assuming absolutely no chance of PR from the Tories, which will definitely be the case
Edit: and taking into account DUP support bought with agreement not to cut public sector in NI
ska invita
back on the other side
theres no need for that.
by the way, do you consider labour a centre left party?
Pretty much I think - Tories a little lower, other two a little higher in others
Would be interesting to know how much these polls weight by likelihood to vote and how much they'd be thrown out by a high turn out. Given that one of the questions of the election has been whether the Lib Dems' big youth/student vote actually turns up and that Labour also benefit from a high turn out, this could be crucial.
I'm sweating. Everyone has kept talking about Labour getting most seats if they get in second position %age vote wise (or even, at a stretch, in third) and also, everyone has kept assuming there'll be a hung Parliament.
By 'everyone' I mean in the mainstream media admittedly ...
Quirks of the voting system and local variations (along with the Lib Dems fading late on) could easily deliver the Tories an overall majority, or just below it, on 36% or 37%.
Those Guardian figures could (perhaps) have 'evenly split opposition' written all over them ...
By 'everyone' I mean in the mainstream media admittedly ...
Quirks of the voting system and local variations (along with the Lib Dems fading late on) could easily deliver the Tories an overall majority, or just below it, on 36% or 37%.
Those Guardian figures could (perhaps) have 'evenly split opposition' written all over them ...
Quirks of the voting system and local variations (along with the Lib Dems fading late on) could easily deliver the Tories an overall majority, or just below it, on 36% or 37%.
Well for what it's worth the tories have seemingly given up here. Apparently we are number 61 on their list of targets and the lib dems have probably held firm. So if the tories can't win here (Richmond Park) what does that say?
ETA: I don't think the tories will win many (if any) seats from the lib dems, therefore it really depends on how the labour vote holds up.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
With Labour the beneficiaries.
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