Toriers & Lib Dems, deal by Monday morning?

[agricola]

Wibble, on Newsnight they are saying that in order to keep the right of the Tory party from going insane, Cameron has had to offer more cabinet posts to right-wingers such as David Davis and Michael Howard.

Davis would be much better than Grayling, IMHO.

 

[elbows]

The Tory press should have amusing rants in them tomorrow. Joy.

 

[cesare]

By template, I meant the documents that they are actually working on which presumably will have been drafted by the Mandarins beforehand.

As for the strategy it will be some combination of the above, more likely (2) and (3) with the Mandarins pushing hard through the structure of the negotiations for (2) on both sides.

See my earlier post for how I envisage it.

Aye, I posted before I saw your subsequent post. I agree with much of this.

Just to add though (cos I find it interesting) Clegg adopted (1) too early, and Brown's default position is usually (1) but this time it's dressed more cleverly.

 

[bi0boy]

The Tory press should have amusing rants in them tomorrow. Joy.

Yep:

...the Daily Mail has a bleak view of Monday's proceedings. It proclaims a "Squalid Day for Democracy", calling Nick Clegg "two-faced". The Daily Telegraph calls Mr Brown's decision to quit a "sordid" attempt to keep Labour in power.

 

[ymu]

All the commentates I've seem have all agreed that the UK is very lucky that today the EU agreed on a financial plan to support all Euro country's, that is why the markets went up.

The £ is lower against a host of its major trading partners.

Good! Fuck The City, we're going to need a boost to manufacturing when the cuts start to bite. You know - actual jobs, not just a handful of City boys playing craps with our pensions.

 

[Diamond]

The Telegraph's editorial is worth perusing. I may be misreading things but at one point they seem to be threatning that Brown will be done in.

 

[stupid kid]

*cough*

I remember that. "But they hit us with baterrrns"...

 

[cesare]

The Telegraph's editorial is worth perusing. I may be misreading things but at one point they seem to be threatning that Brown will be done in.

What do you mean by 'done in'? Given that it's been fairly obvious from the start of his tenure, that his tenure has been tenuous at least - in terms of getting what he wants*, he hasn't done a bad job. And he's running rings round those two at the moment.








* For the avoidance of doubt, I don't fucking agree with most of what he wants.

 

[1%er]

Good! Fuck The City, we're going to need a boost to manufacturing when the cuts start to bite. You know - actual jobs, not just a handful of City boys playing craps with our pensions.

Do you really think that the £ loosing about 1/3 of its value against many of our trading partners over the last two years is a good thing?

The "city boys" make money when it goes up and when it goes down The city is far more important to the UK than manufacturing, the ghost of Thatcher

 

[Maidmarian]

What do you mean by 'done in'? Given that it's been fairly obvious from the start of his tenure, that his tenure has been tenuous at least - in terms of getting what he wants*, he hasn't done a bad job. And he's running rings round those two at the moment.








* For the avoidance of doubt, I don't fucking agree with most of what he wants.

Yep.

 

[elbows]

Do you really think that the £ loosing about 1/3 of its value against many of our trading partners over the last two years is a good thing?

Its supposed to be good for exports. It hasnt helped as much as some would have expected.

Meanwhile Paul Mason on Newsnight thinks the markets will get quite upset when they open tomorrow, they dont like the instability that todays political developments suggest.

 

[claphamboy]

Labour have confirmed there would have to be a referendum before the introduction of AV, just that they would have the law in place in case it was agreed.

 

[1%er]

Its supposed to be good for exports. It hasnt helped as much as some would have expected.

Meanwhile Paul Mason on Newsnight thinks the markets will get quite upset when they open tomorrow, they dont like the instability that todays political developments suggest.

Not for items traded in $ and imports

 

[cesare]

Yep.

I might regret saying this later ... but I think he's doing a great job at playing them and seeing them both concede. It's a win/win strategy for him; nothing to lose.

 

[ymu]

Do you really think that the £ loosing about 1/3 of its value against many of our trading partners over the last two years is a good thing?

The "city boys" make money when it goes up and when it goes down The city is far more important to the UK than manufacturing, the ghost of Thatcher

Yes, I do think it's a good thing. It means other countries are better able to afford the things we make, rather than us relying on City Boys rolling dice to fill the massive hole in GDP whilst replacing manufacturing jobs with lower skilled and lower paid service sector jobs.

It's precisely because The City was allowed to dominate the economy to a much greater extent than in any other country that we're in quite such a deep hole now.

The pound has been massively over-valued for a long time, in part because of a misplaced sense of national pride in keeping it over-valued. It's silly.

 

[ymu]

Not for items traded in $ and imports

Wut? we're talking about exports, not imports. Cheap imports are the problem, not the solution. It's what has killed manufacturing and left us reliant on the greedy morons in The City.

 

[cesare]

Labour have confirmed there would have to be a referendum before the introduction of AV, just that they would have the law in place in case it was agreed.

What do you mean by 'law in place'?

Edit to avoid this dragging out: he can't magic laws into place. Without a parliament (of whatever type), no laws can be passed. So all that ^ seemingly amounts to if you've read it right, is that Labour would initiate the legislation before the summer break (o rly), so even if they did this, nothing much would go before the House (if we have one lol) before October

 

[1%er]

Wut? we're talking about exports, not imports. Cheap imports are the problem, not the solution. It's what has killed manufacturing and left us reliant on the greedy morons in The City.

No we are talking about the value of the £ and if having a low £ is a good thing.

The UK has a trade deficit, so if the £ goes down the price of imports goes up

I have no time for the people in the city, but I understand the balance of power nowadays

 

[Open Sauce]

good stuff


still im still really not a fan of the labour party although i'd prefer them to the tories!!!

You should vote libdem then

 

[elbows]

The UK has a trade deficit, so if the £ goes down the price of imports goes up

Which as the old theory goes depresses demand for imports, further helping the balance of trade, and encouraging us to make the stuff ourselves. Not so easy in the high-tech age.

 

[timeforanother]

It gets painful. They said in the old days that revolution needed to be international. We are so intertwined now that it could all fall to bits if the world economy doesn't march in step; it could turn into a zombie movie. I wish Rosa Luxemburg got her chance, back in the day. Meanwhile I'm a softy, voting Lib so at least you can vote for who you want to get in, and stop the erosion of civil liberties.

 

[Lo Siento.]

No we are talking about the value of the £ and if having a low £ is a good thing.

The UK has a trade deficit, so if the £ goes down the price of imports goes up

wouldn't that result in buying less imports, producing more goods in the uk, and selling more things abroad, thus reducing the trade deficit?

 

[ymu]

No we are talking about the value of the £ and if having a low £ is a good thing.

The UK has a trade deficit, so if the £ goes down the price of imports goes up

Do you know what a trade deficit is? And why cheap imports make it worse and cheap exports make it better?

 

[Open Sauce]

To right.

Fuck the Lib Dems. Cameron has really gone down in my estimation now. He should have the balls to tell them to go and fuck themselves.

And Lab-Lib-Celt Chip on their shoulders Government will have zero mandate to impose legislation on England and it will only be a matter of months before another election is called which the Tories will walk, based purely on the seats they get in England.

Interesting, so we should never allow a Government to legislate on an area where they don't have a mandate, so some laws covert Dorset, Cornwall and Kent, others London, Liverpool and Leeds?

The UK can go and fuck itself forever.

Though you supported the Conversative and Unionist party?

 

[little_legs]

daily fail's front page for Tue:

two-faced clegg they say, we are heading for a minority government

 

[claphamboy]

What do you mean by 'law in place'?

Edit to avoid this dragging out: he can't magic laws into place. Without a parliament (of whatever type), no laws can be passed. So all that ^ seemingly amounts to if you've read it right, is that Labour would initiate the legislation before the summer break (o rly), so even if they did this, nothing much would go before the House (if we have one lol) before October

Indeed and a referendum some time next year at a guess.

What was being suggested earlier was that Labour would introduce AV without referendum, and than hold a referendum on STV, but they have confirmed that is not the case.

All they are offering is to put the AV system into law and then hold a referendum asking voters to approve it before it actually becomes law.

 

[1%er]

Which as the old theory goes depresses demand for imports, further helping the balance of trade, and encouraging us to make the stuff ourselves. Not so easy in the high-tech age.

But in March the UK had the biggest deficit in 17 months, the £ is at a 13-month low against the dollar. I think I read somewhere that the majority of UK imports are traded in $ and those $ are more expensive

The budget deficit is more than 11% of GDP, whatever happens the UK is in for a real hard time.

Do you know what a trade deficit is? And why cheap imports make it worse and cheap exports make it better?

In a manufacturing economy

 

[Lo Siento.]

daily fail's front page for Tue:

two-faced clegg they say, we are heading for a minority government

because obviously what the British people really want, is a Conservative Government. Which they illustrated by mostly voting for other parties.

 

[ymu]

But in March the UK had the biggest deficit in 17 months, the £ is at a 13-month low against the dollar. I think I read somewhere that the majority of our imports are traded in $ and those $ are more expensive

The budget deficit is more than 11% of GDP, whatever happens the UK is in for a real hard time.

You're getting confused between a lot of different things.

The budget deficit is the difference between what we spend and what we take in tax.

Balance of trade is the amount we sell to other countries compared to the amount we buy from them. If we buy more than we sell, there is a trade deficit.

Manufacturing jobs don't arise overnight. A weaker pound makes it economically viable to invest in more manufacturing industry in the UK because the goods we make become cheaper for other countries to buy,but that takes a while to actually happen. An increase in the value of the pound has a much quicker impact because they can just stop buying stuff as soon as it gets more expensive.

 

[cesare]

Indeed and a referendum some time next year at a guess.

What was being suggested earlier was that Labour would introduce AV without referendum, and than hold a referendum on STV, but they have confirmed that is not the case.

All they are offering is to put the AV system into law and then hold a referendum asking voters to approve it before it actually becomes law.

Any of the members (of whatever Party) could start a private members bill on this right now. That would be amusing.

Edit: so what did you mean about 'law in place'? As it stands, they can't offer to put the AV system into law.