Too many immigration threads on UK P&P?

[nino_savatte]

yet again baseless accusations ..

demanding controls?? never ever .. i have repeated this to you a million times and you have never come up with a single instance of me demanding state controls ( community/ w/c control yes .. i think that is very differrent .. are you against that?)

the housing argument is over on the Griffin thread .. you continue to miss the point deliberately or not

i never ever suggested you were lying over the idea immigrants are prioritised (or that you worked in housing) .. i, like you, know they are not .. the issue is that families or homelss or those in need are, and they, in this part of the world, are predominantly migrants ..

You continue to slip and slide about to the extent that even trying to discuss anything with you is impossible.

the housing argument is over on the Griffin thread .. you continue to miss the point deliberately or not

I'm "missing" nothing. You keep moving the goalposts. The housing argument it here too.

community/ w/c control

You keep talking about this but it is still not clear how you hope to acheive this. Furthermore, you will run the risk of alienating many people in your 'community' since the 'community' actually contains a number of communities. Who is this message specifically for?

 

[nino_savatte]

yet again baseless accusation .. i have helped migrant agency staff get full time jobs where i work ..

it is only you who think we are blaming migrants ( and MC) .. i do not believe, and have never once said on urban, that it is right to blame migrants .. and i have said a million times i blame the bosses for all our ills ..

why when i say, as i have said countless times, that i blame the neoliberals, the spivs and the cowboys for using and abusing migrants, why do you persist in pretending i am blaming migrants themselves???

It isn't a "baseless accusation" and I think the numbers of posts where you mention this and then contradict yourself are numerous.

You keep banging on about neo-liberalism but you have shown absolutely no willingness nor have you the strategies to challenge the system. You want to treat the symptoms rather than the causes.

 

[durruti02]

It isn't a "baseless accusation" and I think the numbers of posts where you mention this and then contradict yourself are numerous.

You keep banging on about neo-liberalism but you have shown absolutely no willingness nor have you the strategies to challenge the system. You want to treat the symptoms rather than the causes.

you make me laugh you really do .. i have seen NO politics on this these threads at all from you yet you say i have no strategies!!

i have quite clearly put a strategy .. in the community a IWCA/HI strategy of rebuilding community and similarly in the unions a militant rank and file strategy.

you have lost your argument .. go and do something useful please

 

[nino_savatte]

you make me laugh you really do .. i have seen NO politics on this these threads at all from you yet you say i have no strategies!!

i have quite clearly put a strategy .. in the community a IWCA/HI strategy of rebuilding community and similarly in the unions a militant rank and file strategy.

you have lost your argument .. go and do something useful please

Aye, you keep repeating this stuff ad nauseum. Your strategy, such as it is, is based on very narrow ideas of 'community' and identity. The IWCA, too, are very narrow and parochial in their outlook: to them there still exists the working class of the 19th and 20th centuries; the working class of heavy industry not the working class of the call centres and the rest of the service industry.

If anyone has lost this argument, it is you.

 

[durruti02]

Aye, you keep repeating this stuff ad nauseum. Your strategy, such as it is, is based on very narrow ideas of 'community' and identity. The IWCA, too, are very narrow and parochial in their outlook: to them there still exists the working class of the 19th and 20th centuries; the working class of heavy industry not the working class of the call centres and the rest of the service industry.

If anyone has lost this argument, it is you.

simply not true .. iwca do not think like this at all! why do you constantly misrepresent ..

how many times do i have s to say e.g. that 'MY' community is toatlly multi ethnic/race relegion

my industrial startegy means mass recruitment of migrant workers too .. so you are just so wide of the mark mate it is not true ..

 

[nino_savatte]

simply not true .. iwca do not think like this at all! why do you constantly misrepresent ..

how many times do i have s to say e.g. that 'MY' community is toatlly multi ethnic/race relegion

my industrial startegy means mass recruitment of migrant workers too .. so you are just so wide of the mark mate it is not true ..

I have spent some time looking at the IWCA website and none of it convinces me. It's narrow-minded stuff; particularly the way they use "multiculturalism" as a leaping off point.

You make it all up as you go along. Admit it.

 

[durruti02]

I have spent some time looking at the IWCA website and none of it convinces me. It's narrow-minded stuff; particularly the way they use "multiculturalism" as a leaping off point.

You make it all up as you go along. Admit it.

i do not ask that it convinces you .. but it is a long way from that to the outrageous suggestions you have made against me .. you may not agree with all the IWCA state but considering IWCA came out of Anti Facist Action i think you think maybe you should try to understand where they are coming from ..

 

[nino_savatte]

i do not ask that it convinces you .. but it is a long way from that to the outrageous suggestions you have made against me .. you may not agree with all the IWCA state but considering IWCA came out of Anti Facist Action i think you think maybe you should try to understand where they are coming from ..

What "suggestions"? I have suggested that you are "obsessed with the issue of immigration". Is that not true?

The IWCA my have come out of the AFA but their use of the word "multicultural" is in the pejorative sense. To me, it is about tolerance and it is a celebration of the many cultures that we have in this country. To use it to solely describe government policies, such as "faith schools" is wrong and misleading, yet this is how the IWCA and many others have reordered the language in order to reflect bigoted attitudes to other peoples.

 

[butchersapron]

What "suggestions"? I have suggested that you are "obsessed with the issue of immigration". Is that not true?

The IWCA my have come out of the AFA but their use of the word "multicultural" is in the pejorative sense. To me, it is about tolerance and it is a celebration of the many cultures that we have in this country. To use it to solely describe government policies, such as "faith schools" is wrong and misleading, yet this is how the IWCA and many others have reordered the language in order to reflect bigoted attitudes to other peoples.

Wrong. the IWCA use the term 'multi-culturalism' in the sense that they've made a critial interrogation of its history and comtemporary use as a state-developed strategy to further fragment, divide and definitively remove from the poltical agenda any class based independent political initiatives. A ruling class strategy that is leading to social problems being addressed as or only being seen as valid if expressed in cultural/ethnic/racial terms. The IWCA also bases that reading on a clear and explict committment to anti-racism - not on 'bigoted attitudes to other peoples.'.

 

[nino_savatte]

Wrong. the IWCA use the term 'multi-culturalism' in the sense that they've made a critial interrogation of its history and comtemporary use as a state-developed strategy to further fragment, divide and definitively remove from the poltical agenda any class based independent political initiatives. A ruling class strategy that is leading to social problems being addressed as or only being seen as valid if expressed in cultural/ethnic/racial terms. The IWCA also bases that reading on a clear and explict committment to anti-racism - not on 'bigoted attitudes to other peoples.'.

Nonsense, it has taken the pejorative meaning of the word and it has run with it. Separate faith schools and so on have very little to do with "multiculturalism" in my view. I think the IWCA ignore the many cultures present in their 'communities' and are trying to impose a sort of homogeneity.

I do find it worrying that so-called "leftists" continue to use terms like "asylum seeker".

 

[butchersapron]

It's clear that you not done anything more than take a cursory glance at the IWCA's criticisms of official multi-culturalism, in fact that was clear from your first post in which you describe an explicit platfrom of anti-racism and anti-segregation as being based on ''bigoted attitudes' rather than a genuine (and practical) attempt to futher those approaches - anti-segregation is now seeking to imopse a homogentity? How on earth do you square that circle?

 

[nino_savatte]

It's clear that you not done anything more than take a cursory glance at the IWCA's criticisms of official multi-culturalism, in fact that was clear from your first post in which you describe an explicit platfrom of anti-racism and anti-segregation as being based on ''bigoted attitudes' rather than a genuine (and practical) attempt to futher those approaches - anti-segregation is now seeking to imopse a homogentity? How on earth do you square that circle?

Have you ever heard of "workerism"? What, in your mind, constitutes "working class" these days?

You've done some marvellous rewriting of my posts here too. Multiculturalism is used as a sort of rallying cry. The examples of "multiculturalism" given by the IWCA tend to focus on the negatives: faith schools and so forth. Is it not the case that people want to hang onto the culture of their native land...or should they be "sent back", if they do?

You never said what you thought of the term "asylum seeker", torres...presumably you have no opinion either way.

 

[butchersapron]

Have you ever heard of "workerism"? What, in your mind, constitutes "working class" these days?

You've done some marvellous rewriting of my posts here too. Multiculturalism is used as a sort of rallying cry. The examples of "multiculturalism" given by the IWCA tend to focus on the negatives: faith schools and so forth. Is it not the case that people want to hang onto the culture of their native land...or should they be "sent back", if they do?

You never said what you thought of the term "asylum seeker", torres...presumably you have no opinion either way.

And nino calls yet another poster a racist. You truly are a disgrace. For someone whose what, in their 60s, you can be incredibly childish.

'Workerism', yes, i've heard of it (in both its forms) - what's that got to do with your politically malicious (and i suspect) deliberate misreading of the IWCA's postion on multi-culturaliasm (a reading that just for a change suggest that a group who doesn't agree with you are...guess what - racists - what a suprise!).

Yes, of course people who want to maintain elments of their own 'culture' should be 'sent back'.

Why on earth would i wish to comment on the term "asylum seeker" - if you want to use a counter-term for some reason then go ahead. I think you're on very shaky grounds indeed though if you're going to suggest that the IWCA has racist or bigotted attitudes because their manifesto uses the official term that the govt uses - after all, where the crime in wanting to be clear about exactly what you mean and who you're referring to? Do you think the people working with the the Asylum Seekers Co-ordination Team (ASCT) which 'co-ordinates healthcare policy for asylum seekers and refugees to ensure that health and social care requirements are met at all stages of the asylum process, and taken into account in policy planning.' are also hiding their bigotries behind this use of an official term?

 

[nino_savatte]

And nino calls yet another poster a racist. You truly are a disgrace. For someone whose what, in their 60s, you can be incredibly childish.

'Workerism', yes, i've heard of it (in both its forms) - what's that got to do with your politically malicious (and i suspect) deliberate misreading of the IWCA's postion on multi-culturaliasm (a reading that just for a change suggest that a group who doesn't agree with you are...guess what - racists - what a suprise!).

Yes, of course people who want to maintain elments of their own 'culture' should be 'sent back'.

Why on earth would i wish to comment on the term "asylum seeker" - if you want to use a counter-term for some reason then go ahead. I think you're on very shaky grounds indeed though if you're going to suggest that the IWCA has racist or bigotted attitudes because their manifesto uses the official term that the govt uses - after all, where the crime in wanting to be clear about exactly what you mean and who you're referring to? Do you think the people working with the the Asylum Seekers Co-ordination Team (ASCT) which 'co-ordinates healthcare policy for asylum seekers and refugees to ensure that health and social care requirements are met at all stages of the asylum process, and taken into account in policy planning.' are also hiding their bigotries behind this use of an official term?

Who have a I called a "racist"? You're performing a bang up smear job here, butchers.

Again, you miss the point in order to put the boot in.

'Workerism', yes, i've heard of it (in both its forms) - what's that got to do with your politically malicious (and i suspect) deliberate misreading of the IWCA's postion on multi-culturaliasm (a reading that just for a change suggest that a group who doesn't agree with you are...guess what - racists - what a suprise!).

It has plenty to do with what I'm saying. Exactly what is "working class" these days? You never dealt with that point, did you? Perhaps you, like the IWCA, subscribes to the romanticised view of working class. In fact, I think you do. Did i say that the IWCA was "racist"? A wee bit romantic and misguided perhaps but "racist"? Your imagination is working overtime, friend.

You're a fucking bully and an arrogant one at that. You're pretty handy with the smears too. You're a typical Bonehead...like your pal.

 

[Pete the Greek]

You're a fucking bully and an arrogant one at that. You're pretty handy with the smears too. You're a typical Bonehead.

Talking to the mirror again, Nine?

 

[nino_savatte]

Talking to the mirror again, Nine?

Come to do L&L's job for him, have you?

 

[Pete the Greek]

Come to do L&L's job for him, have you?

Can't we press a button somewhere and get VP to replace you as resident P&P scourge? At least he pops some decent analyisis between his abuse-sandwiches.

 

[nino_savatte]

Can't we press a button somewhere and get VP to replace you as resident P&P scourge? At least he pops some decent analyisis between his abuse-sandwiches.

You've got some cheek, pal. The vast majority of your posts are stupid remarks and snide comments.

As for abuse, you're a dab hand at it yourself...oh, but self analysis is not your 'thing' is it? Far better to accuse others of the very things that you are guilty of - non?

 

[butchersapron]

Who have a I called a "racist"? You're performing a bang up smear job here, butchers.

Again, you miss the point in order to put the boot in.

It has plenty to do with what I'm saying. Exactly what is "working class" these days? You never dealt with that point, did you? Perhaps you, like the IWCA, subscribes to the romanticised view of working class. In fact, I think you do. Did i say that the IWCA was "racist"? A wee bit romantic and misguided perhaps but "racist"? Your imagination is working overtime, friend.

You're a fucking bully and an arrogant one at that. You're pretty handy with the smears too. You're a typical Bonehead...like your pal.

Absolutely no point in replying to this. Racist racist racist racist. Pathetic.

 

[Pete the Greek]

You've got some cheek, pal. The vast majority of your posts are stupid remarks and snide comments.

As for abuse, you're a dab hand at it yourself...oh, but self analysis is not your 'thing' is it? Far better to accuse others of the very things that you are guilty of - non?

you're digging. Everyone knows my analysis is short, sweet, to the point and excellent - when I'm given half a chance.

I refer you to this remark you made to Torres: You're a fucking bully and an arrogant one at that. You're pretty handy with the smears too. You're a typical Bonehead...like your pal.
which was uncalled for an evidence of hypocrisy.

 

[nino_savatte]

Absolutely no point in replying to this. Racist racist racist racist. Pathetic.

LOL!!!! You walked into that one, butchers. ROTFLMAO.

Now if I'd called you a "bonehead", you'd have some cause to be annoyed but I called you a "Bonehead". LOL!!!!!

You are a member of CW, aren't you?

So what is your position on racism, butchers? You seem to have a problem whenever it is mentioned....particularly when I mention it...why is that?

Prick.

 

[nino_savatte]

you're digging. Everyone knows my analysis is short, sweet, to the point and excellent - when I'm given half a chance.

I refer you to this remark you made to Torres: You're a fucking bully and an arrogant one at that. You're pretty handy with the smears too. You're a typical Bonehead...like your pal.
which was uncalled for an evidence of hypocrisy.

Nah, you're another one who thinks he's a cut above the rest but your posts on the ME forum are particularly one-sided and nasty.

I called yer pal, butchers a "Bonehead" not a "bonehead. Pillock.

Wind 'em up and watch 'em go!

ETA: It's interesting how you showed up just as torres was getting his knickers in a twist.

 

[nino_savatte]

So where did I refer to the IWCA as "racist", butchers? Either produce the evidence or shut the fuck up.

 

[treelover]

Nino and co wouldn't like Disappearing London on Sky 3, presented by Suggs, . that well known racist, it is is a chronicle of the bits of London and some of its characters, fast disappearing and unlamented by the London liberalatti and its cheerleaders. So, we have the East End London tug and lightermen who despise the new City Yuppies, the old Sarf London boozers, Streatham Ice Rink, Romford Dog Track, racetrack, etc, but its all so working class and 'hideously white!

http://www.disappearinglondon.com/series1.php

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nino and co wouldn't like Disappearing London on Sky 3, presented by Suggs, . that well known racist, it is is a chronicle of the bits of London and some of its characters, fast disappearing and unlamented by the London liberalatti and its cheerleaders. So, we have the East End London tug and lightermen who despise the new City Yuppies, the old Sarf London boozers, Streatham Ice Rink, Romford Dog Track, racetrack, etc, but its all so working class and 'hideously white!

Having seen all three series to date, I can only say "stop talking such utter bollocks".

 

[JoePolitix]

The basic thrust of Nino's critique of the IWCA "line" of multi-culturalism is correct. How could it be anything but - Uncle Joe made similar points a while back and got an earful from the Bakuninites for doing so:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=147821&page=6

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4117339&postcount=197

In retrospect though I think there's a much simpler explanation - the IWCA simply have an adverse reaction to anything with the initials "MC" (e.g Multi Culturalism, Middle Classes, Microphone Controller, Master of Ceremonies etc).

Looking through that old thread reminds me how shite things used to be when this board was under the iron heel of the Bakuninites. Fortunately now this force has been shattered and only exists as isolated pockets of resistance (e.g Larry the Loon etc*). But beware comrades, the Bakuninites may well regroup under the leadership of that evil genius "Torres" and then we're really in for trouble. They're ruthless and they'll stop at nothing.

Great comrade Marx learnt this the hard way.

U75 learnt this the hard way.

Don't let history repeat itself third time as whatever follows farce.

Bakuninism = Just say no.



* (deep green Bakuninite)

 

[JoePolitix]

Having seen all three series to date, I can only say "stop talking such utter bollocks".

Phat chance.

 

[treelover]

It was a dam sight better informed than it is now the SWP and their fellow travellers infest P/P, if sometimes too agressive

btw, for five years on these boards i never insulted anyone, while venom was splayed liberally around me, now I do frequently, catching bad habits?

 

[durruti02]

1)What "suggestions"? I have suggested that you are "obsessed with the issue of immigration". Is that not true?

2)The IWCA my have come out of the AFA but their use of the word "multicultural" is in the pejorative sense. To me, it is about tolerance and it is a celebration of the many cultures that we have in this country. To use it to solely describe government policies, such as "faith schools" is wrong and misleading, yet this is how the IWCA and many others have reordered the language in order to reflect bigoted attitudes to other peoples.

2)as torres says i think you have misunderstood this critique of multi culturalism which many activits from BME support .. it IS about supportting tolerance and celebrationof cultures .. it is against the state and elites using differrence to divide communities ..

1) only a while ago you were saying i was like those who are against immigrants coming over here and 'fucking our women' .. so hey whatever nino ..

 

[nino_savatte]

Talking to the mirror again, Nine?

You can talk, trollboy.

Odd how you suddenly popped up to give torres support.