Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
I just did.
The Virgin Mary
- Thread starter Humberto
- Start date
Humberto
bitch
Thanks.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Don't get me wrong, nothing against Catholics and other religious people, after all, loads of my family and people I know believe in God and all that and are nice people with a sense of justice who would never smite anyone. But that book, you know, it's horrible.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this, bcuster
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
Bluebottle: What time is it Eccles?
Eccles: Err, just a minute. I've got it written down on a piece of paper. A nice man wrote the time down for me this morning.
Bluebottle: Ooooh, then why do you carry it around with you Eccles?
Eccles: Welll, um, if a anybody asks me the time, I can show it to dem.
Bluebottle: Wait a minute Eccles, my good man.
Eccles: What is it fellow?
Bluebottle: It's writted on this bit of paper, what is eight o'clock, is writted.
Eccles: I know that my good fellow. That's right, um, when I asked the fella to write it down, it was eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: Well then. Supposing when somebody asks you the time, it isn't eight o'clock?
Eccles: Well den, I don't show it to 'em.
Bluebottle: Ooohhh.
Eccles: [smacks lips] yeah.
Bluebottle: Well how do you know when it's eight o'clock?
Eccles: I've got it written down on a piece of paper.
Bluebottle: Ohh, I wish I could afford a piece of paper with the time written on.
Eccles: Oohhhh.
Bluebottle: 'Ere Eccles?
Eccles: Yah.
Bluebottle: Let me hold that piece of paper to my ear would you? 'Ere. This piece of paper ain't goin'.
Eccles: What? I've been sold a forgery.
Bluebottle: No wonder it stopped at eight o'clock.
Eccles: Oh dear.
Bluebottle: You should get one of them tings my Grandad's got.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: His firm give it to him when he retired.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: It's one of dem tings what it is that wakes you up at eight o'clock, boils the kettul, and pours a cuppa tea.
Eccles: Ohhh yeah. What's it called? Um.
Bluebottle: My Granma.
Eccles: Ohh. Ohh, wait a minute. How does she know when it's eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: She's got it written down on a piece of paper.
Eccles: Err, just a minute. I've got it written down on a piece of paper. A nice man wrote the time down for me this morning.
Bluebottle: Ooooh, then why do you carry it around with you Eccles?
Eccles: Welll, um, if a anybody asks me the time, I can show it to dem.
Bluebottle: Wait a minute Eccles, my good man.
Eccles: What is it fellow?
Bluebottle: It's writted on this bit of paper, what is eight o'clock, is writted.
Eccles: I know that my good fellow. That's right, um, when I asked the fella to write it down, it was eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: Well then. Supposing when somebody asks you the time, it isn't eight o'clock?
Eccles: Well den, I don't show it to 'em.
Bluebottle: Ooohhh.
Eccles: [smacks lips] yeah.
Bluebottle: Well how do you know when it's eight o'clock?
Eccles: I've got it written down on a piece of paper.
Bluebottle: Ohh, I wish I could afford a piece of paper with the time written on.
Eccles: Oohhhh.
Bluebottle: 'Ere Eccles?
Eccles: Yah.
Bluebottle: Let me hold that piece of paper to my ear would you? 'Ere. This piece of paper ain't goin'.
Eccles: What? I've been sold a forgery.
Bluebottle: No wonder it stopped at eight o'clock.
Eccles: Oh dear.
Bluebottle: You should get one of them tings my Grandad's got.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: His firm give it to him when he retired.
Eccles: Oooohhh.
Bluebottle: It's one of dem tings what it is that wakes you up at eight o'clock, boils the kettul, and pours a cuppa tea.
Eccles: Ohhh yeah. What's it called? Um.
Bluebottle: My Granma.
Eccles: Ohh. Ohh, wait a minute. How does she know when it's eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: She's got it written down on a piece of paper.
Humberto
bitch
There are certainly horrors recorded in it.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Yes, like God smiting people and telling others to smite whole populations.
Humberto
bitch
There's a bit more to it than that. Other tribes said to be committed to Israel's entire extinction among others. I'm not going to attempt to bat away criticism of the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church and so on until kingdom come/the thread is locked.
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bcuster
Well-Known Member
I'd think my feelings about the subject would come under the "do unto others" category...
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Oh, yes humans are so intrinsically kind to each other.,...
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
What about the putting people to death for heresy thing? Any ideas on that?
Was it wrong then, and if it was, doesn't it make the church rather evil? All that murder.
Was it right then, and if it was, why isn't it right now?
But it's probably hard to google a link that will give you a pat answer for that question, and you have shown that you have zero reasoning power of your own.
Was it wrong then, and if it was, doesn't it make the church rather evil? All that murder.
Was it right then, and if it was, why isn't it right now?
But it's probably hard to google a link that will give you a pat answer for that question, and you have shown that you have zero reasoning power of your own.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Here's a story that touches on both corrupt Church & government. How timely for our friendly discussion here
variety.com
Sabrina Carpenter Acknowledges Role in Eric Adams Controversy: ‘Should We Talk About How I Got the Mayor Indicted?’
Sabrina Carpenter has acknowledged her connection to the indictment of New York City Mayor Eric L. Adams.
variety.com
Do you think one should do unto others because God says so, or does God only say so because it's a sound ethical principle?
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Those actions were largely taken by government to advance their own ends. Corrupt & deficient Church officials certainly played a role in it...
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
You're hurting the poor thing's little brain with that question.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Both
So you'd allow that God's instructions on behaviour are based on God-independent considerations of human value?
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
Oh, come on. Thomas Aquinas said it was appropriate to put heretics to death. Wasn't he a good Catholic?
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I'd say it's largely the other way around. Sometimes the interest coincide and are parallel. Sometimes not
bcuster
Well-Known Member
I doubt that. I'd have to research that point. Do you have a link; oops, never mind. You've given your thoughts, that's all a valid post here need have...
I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to come down on one side of this question or the other: Are wrong actions wrong because God says so; or does God forbid such actions because they're wrong? Logically only one of these positions can hold. Is God just a very good guide to what's wrong, or is his will the actual basis for morality?
Is he a guide, or is he setting the rules? Are actions only wrong to the extent that God allows or forbids them? If I cause someone suffering for my own pleasure, is the only reason that that is wrong is because it violates God's will, or is the actual suffering of the other person what matters?
Put it another way: God forbids murder. He must do so for one of the following reasons:
1) Because murder is bad. (Because it causes suffering, or because it violates the Golden Rule, or whyever. The point being that the wrong-ness of the action is logically prior to God forbidding it.)
2) Some other reason. In which case, God's law is not moral at all, it's just arbitrary.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Then there is the fact that there is more than one version of the Ten Commandments
PTK
Paul Kegan
The Church does not "figure it all for us" though, does it?So who's going to figure it all out for us? The atheists of U75? Luther? Cromwell? Or the teaching authority of the Church?
Avert your eyes if you must; another authoritative link in direct response to your question:
The Church's Teaching Authority | EWTN
EWTN is a global, Catholic Television, Catholic Radio, and Catholic News Network that provides catholic programming and news coverage from around the world.www.ewtn.com
andysays
Love and solidarity
It's worth pointing out that all that smiting stuff and most of the other biblical horrors people have mentioned are from the Old Testament, and that a significant and important part of Catholicism (can't speak for other Christians) is that we see it as leaving behind those sort of practices and replacing them with something better.
So Jesus encourages people to turn the other cheek and to love their neighbours and even their enemies as themselves rather than smiting anyone.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Murder is bad because human reason tells us that it's bad and because God tells us it's bad.
According to human institutions with a vested interest in persuading others that this is the case, and that they’re the ones with the special hotline to interpreting his will.
