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The Virgin Mary

I saw an angel in my garden the other night. Its wings were white, tipped with gold. And, you know, some people don't believe me. They think I'm lying, or taking drugs, or just not right in the head.

But I can prove that I saw it! How would I know that its wings were white, tipped with gold, if I were just making it up? It's therefore all but certain that I saw it.
 
Of all the things you can be cynically doubtful about, a potential collaboration between St Luke & Mary, who were historical contemporaries, and both working for the propagation of the Christian faith, seems to me to be really misplaced...
 
Upon tis the life was taken out of the body (for a season) and it was thus resembled, as if a man with a great brush dipt in whiting, should with one stroke wipe out, or sweep off a picture upon a wall, &c. after a while, breath and life was returned into the form againe; whereupon I saw various streames of light (in the night) which appeared to the outward eye; and immediately I saw three hearts (or three appearances) in the form of hearts, of exceeding brightness; and immediately an innumberable company of hearts, filling each corner of the room where I was.
And methoughts there was variety and distinction, as if there had been severall hearts, and yet most strangely and unexplicably complicated or folded up in unity. I clearly saw distinction, diversity, variety, and as clearly saw all swallowed up into unity.
And it hath been my song many times since, within and without, unity, universality, universality, unity, Eternall Majesty, &c. And at this vision, a most strong, glorious voice uttered these words, The Spirits of just men made perfect.
 
bcuster said:
Of all the things you can be cynically doubtful about, a potential collaboration between St Luke & Mary, who were historical contemporaries, and both working for the propagation of the Christian faith, seems to me to be really misplaced...
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Except there's no evidence for it -- even by the notoriously weak standard of evidence that applies to ancient texts -- apart from 'well, it could have happened'. As could an infinite number of possible other scenarios. So?
 
ouirdeaux said:
Except there's no evidence for it -- even by the notoriously weak standard of evidence that applies to ancient texts -- apart from 'well, it could have happened'. As could an infinite number of possible other scenarios. So?
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The Gospel of Luke is evidence for it; not to mention the painting above...
 
I must have missed the painting. Where is it?

And you've failed to post anything from the Gospel of Luke that supports your belief that the author knew Mary personally. Of course, even if a writer says something, it does not mean that it is necessarily true (something your sort really ought to get to grips with). But he doesn't even claim to have met her.
 
ElizabethofYork said:
I like the idea of a female deity though. Balances out the old patriarchal Father God a bit.
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One of the theories I’ve seen put forward is that the Veneration of Mary took particular root in Ireland due to the ease of transfer from the Celtic Mother God, Danu.

Indeed, some hypothesise that there was a widespread Mother Goddess in the Upper Palaeolithic, evidenced by the so-called “Venus” figurines found right across Eurasia.

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And this seemingly widespread cult then fed into the Neolithic and Bronze Age Mother Goddesses.


It should be noted that the evidence for any of this is thin on the ground, and speculative. We don’t know the “Venus” figurines represented a Mother Goddess.

Indeed even the (much much later) Danu’s name is a back-formation from the phrase “Tuatha dé Danann”.

But it would seem much of Catholic Europe was more than comfortable with the role of Mary in Christianity.
 
Many coastal towns in the Mediterranean have a rite whereby a statue of Mary is carried into the sea and then carried out again, which suggests a very clear link to worship of a sea goddess.
 
bcuster said:
The Gospel of Luke is evidence for it; not to mention the painting above...
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Amazing.

In other news, we have conclusive proof that Michelangelo met King David. Not just a painting but a sculpture! Also, they must have fucked, because how else would he know what David’s knob looked like?
 
kabbes said:
Amazing.

In other news, we have conclusive proof that Michelangelo met King David. Not just a painting but a sculpture! Also, they must have fucked, because how else would he know what David’s knob looked like?
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Your fascination with this technically minor issue is fascinating...
 
ElizabethofYork said:
But catholics pray to her and she apparently performs miracles. So she must be divine. Or do humans perform miracles too, and deserve worship?
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I made the exact same point on a previous thread and danny la rouge didn't give me the reasoned comparative religion answer he just gave you, but decided I was cruelly targeting Catholics with prejudice.
 
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