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The Virgin Mary

Kevbad the Bad said:
You haven't answered any of my four points, just attempted to neatly sidestep them. But I noticed your failure. You now have only two chances remaining.
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There were only two questions.

Why South Korea?

It’s nicer than North Korea, which is the usual suggested destination for the religiously intolerant.

Why not more the church to South Korea?

I didn’t want to be rude by answering nonsense of this kind as if an answer was expected.
 
My dad was a member of the New Church (Swedenborg) - they believed that you go to heaven with like minded people, so generous people would go with generous people, angry people would go with angry people, etc. Which is quite a nice idea. I never worked out all the subdivisions but I suppose you'd get angry stamp collectors with other angry stamp collectors. Swedenborg believed that all the important words in the bible had hidden meanings which he expounded at length. I don't think he went much on Virgin Mary though.

I also quite liked Fons Jansen who I learned a fair bit of my Dutch from listening to tapes of his. He'd been an altar boy and from experience said "Binnen de Katholiekse Kerk, alles is verboden behalve wat mag, and da's verplicht" (In the Catholic Church, everything's forbidden apart from what's allowed, and that's compulsory).
 
bcuster said:
And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide
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Why are you calling Cromwell a national hero? That's a very odd thing to say. And what did he have to do with atheism? He wanted to reform the church, not get rid of it.

You seem very confused.
 
bcuster said:
And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide
Click to expand...
I think both famous Cromwells were quite religious men.
 
two sheds said:
My dad was a member of the New Church (Swedenborg) - they believed that you go to heaven with like minded people, so generous people would go with generous people, angry people would go with angry people, etc. Which is quite a nice idea. I never worked out all the subdivisions but I suppose you'd get angry stamp collectors with other angry stamp collectors. Swedenborg believed that all the important words in the bible had hidden meanings which he expounded at length. I don't think he went much on Virgin Mary though.

I also quite liked Fons Jansen who I learned a fair bit of my Dutch from listening to tapes of his. He'd been an altar boy and from experience said "Binnen de Katholiekse Kerk, alles is verboden behalve wat mag, and da's verplicht" (In the Catholic Church, everything's forbidden apart from what's allowed, and that's compulsory).
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1727127061116.png

The Virgin Mary​


The virgin birth is clearly taught in the Scriptures and it cannot be denied without tearing them apart and denying any authority to them. Our text is an example of this categorical teaching: "When . . . Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit." Mary's part in the effecting of the Lord's advent was a vital one and a study of it offers teaching which is of value to us as we strive to make it possible for the Lord to effect such an advent with us. This He does to the regenerate man who has opened his heart and mind so that the Lord may enter into him.


As we well know, Mary served as the Divinely chosen instrument of the Lord's incarnation. Concerning her state, her genius, her inherited nature, we know little; why she was chosen above other women we cannot really tell. Yet there is much that we can know and that is revealed. We are taught that Jehovah assumed the human according to His Divine order, (TCR 89) which means that "it was necessary, in order for Him actually to become man, that He should be conceived, carried in the womb, born, educated gradually acquire knowledge, and by it be introduced into intelligence and wisdom.



I think Swedie quite liked Her. An odd view for a protestant...
 
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8ball said:
There were only two questions.

Why South Korea?

It’s nicer than North Korea, which is the usual suggested destination for the religiously intolerant.

Why not more the church to South Korea?

I didn’t want to be rude by answering nonsense of this kind as if an answer was expected.
Click to expand...
Two questions, but four points.

I'm not religiously intolerant. Just bell-ringing intolerant.

So moving the church to South Korea is nonsense, but quite OK if I go there?
 
bcuster said:
View attachment 443986

The Virgin Mary​


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Ta I did idly think of checking. He's very wordy.

I never really thought of my dad believing in God and stuff but I suppose he must have to get through all that.

Eta: I used to obsessively visit 2nd hand bookshops and the high point of our whole relationship was when I found a complete set of Swedenborg's writings for him.
 
ElizabethofYork said:
Why are you calling Cromwell a national hero? That's a very odd thing to say. And what did he have to do with atheism? He wanted to reform the church, not get rid of it.

You seem very confused.
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maybe I am. The Catholic view of Oliver Cromwell is that he is an intolerant monster. The English lauded him as a national hero
 
8ball said:
I think you have let a sense of personal chagrin override the clear legitimacy of the point, which you would likely understand in a quieter moment.
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I have no sense of personal chagrin here. At all. I even had to look up the meaning of 'chagrin'. Proof if ever it were needed.
 
bcuster said:
maybe I am. The Catholic view of Oliver Cromwell is that he is an intolerant monster. The English lauded him as a national hero
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The sensible view is that he was a genocidal monster. You don't have to be Catholic to see that.

And I wouldn't say that every English person dead or alive lauded him.

It's like saying all the Americans are Christofascists who lauded the genocide of the indigenous people, or were just fine with the Salem witch trials.
 
krtek a houby said:
The sensible view is that he was a genocidal monster. You don't have to be Catholic to see that.

And I wouldn't say that every English person dead or alive lauded him.

It's like saying all the Americans are Christofascists who lauded the genocide of the indigenous people, or were just fine with the Salem witch trials.
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We do have a Guy Fawkes' night gleefully and rambunctiously celebrated annually.
 
Kevbad the Bad said:
You say religion is personal, but far from it. Religions are social, philosophical, political constructs.
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Both / all this together at the same time, really.

Kevbad the Bad said:
You may not agree with all of a particular religion, but your adherence to it helps propagate, prolong and promote all aspects of that belief system and often enforced obedience to its demands.
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Like capitalism you mean?
 
Why is Mary so worshipped anyway? Is there anything in the Bible to support such idolatry? I was under the impression it was not advised to worship anyone other than God. Did the Catholics find a loophole?

Anyway, my own beliefs are agnostic. I can't say for sure one way or the other. My daily reality is tangible Newtonian physics with a bit of spiritual intuition thrown in which could well be coincidence or may be synchronicity. Science tells us of a quantum reality underlying this one which is decidedly spooky and barely understood. Nobody knows what consciousness is or why anything exists at all.

All the theories are interesting to research. I've read about NDEs and OBEs. Had a couple of OBEs myself. Spoke to "God" during which I understood the universe presents itself in whatever form is most meaningful to us, be it any of the religious beliefs and philosophies. Which produces the hedging truth that everyone is right. Maybe that was just a conversation with myself in a moment of self-realisation. Who knows? I wouldn't bet the farm on any firm answer.
 
Happy Tree said:
Why is Mary so worshipped anyway? Is there anything in the Bible to support such idolatry? I was under the impression it was not advised to worship anyone other than God. Did the Catholics find a loophole?

Anyway, my own beliefs are agnostic. I can't say for sure one way or the other. My daily reality is tangible Newtonian physics with a bit of spiritual intuition thrown in which could well be coincidence or may be synchronicity. Science tells us of a quantum reality underlying this one which is decidedly spooky and barely understood. Nobody knows what consciousness is or why anything exists at all.

All the theories are interesting to research. I've read about NDEs and OBEs. Had a couple of OBEs myself. Spoke to "God" during which I understood the universe presents itself in whatever form is most meaningful to us, be it any of the religious beliefs and philosophies. Which produces the hedging truth that everyone is right. Maybe that was just a conversation with myself in a moment of self-realisation. Who knows? I wouldn't bet the farm on any firm answer.
Click to expand...

Well, who are any of us here to argue with someone who has two OBEs?
 
Happy Tree said:
Why is Mary so worshipped anyway? Is there anything in the Bible to support such idolatry? I was under the impression it was not advised to worship anyone other than God. Did the Catholics find a loophole?
Click to expand...
Interesting post but just on this bit:

Luke 1:40-55?

Also, not strictly 'worshipped' if I understand.
 
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