The Virgin Mary

[PTK]

“Like Narnia, but warmer”, according to one TripAdvisor review.

That has to be a lie, because no-one had ever returned from a trip to Heaven - which is ominous, in my opinion.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

You do, and FWIW I don't tend to explain my spiritual beliefs to anyone who isn't already sympathetic, for that reason.

Politics, have at it by all means. Religion, in my view is personal and should 99% remain so. When you publicise what you believe you do kind of open yourself up to having it trod on. I don't do that, but I wouldn't complain about it if I publicly volunteered details among people who didn't share or at least respect my beliefs.

/2p

Fair enough. If you don't want to talk about your faith then keep shtum. No-one will know what you believe and can't criticise you. But once you do start talking about it you're fair game. Trouble with most Catholics (and indeed many followers of most religions) is that they can't stop talking about it, or displaying tokens of their belief, or letting everyone else know how righteous, or sinful, they are. And very often also making everyone else respect their beliefs, or follow their diktats on pain of death.
You say religion is personal, but far from it. Religions are social, philosophical, political constructs. You may not agree with all of a particular religion, but your adherence to it helps propagate, prolong and promote all aspects of that belief system and often enforced obedience to its demands.

 

[bcuster]

That has to be a lie, because no-one had ever returned from a trip to Heaven - which is ominous, in my opinion.

You don't know that for sure

 

[bcuster]

Fair enough. If you don't want to talk about your faith then keep shtum. No-one will know what you believe and can't criticise you. But once you do start talking about it you're fair game. Trouble with most Catholics (and indeed many followers of most religions) is that they can't stop talking about it, or displaying tokens of their belief, or letting everyone else know how righteous, or sinful, they are. And very often also making everyone else respect their beliefs, or follow their diktats on pain of death.
You say religion is personal, but far from it. Religions are social, philosophical, political constructs. You may not agree with all of a particular religion, but your adherence to it helps propagate, prolong and promote all aspects of that belief system and often enforced obedience to its demands.

exactly the same for atheists; they protest too much
imho, it's because they live in a dark, hopeless world

 

[PTK]

You don't know that for sure

Do you know of any cases of someone returning from Heaven?

 

[8ball]

You don't know that for sure

Mohammed, for starters…

 

[PTK]

exactly the same for atheists; they protest too much
imho, it's because they live in a dark, hopeless world

No they don't.

 

[bcuster]

Do you know of any cases of someone returning from Heaven?

There are many reported instances of exactly that; in the Bible and in both public & private revelation

 

[PTK]

Mohammed, for starters…

Was that the proper Heaven, as advertised by the local church?

 

[8ball]

Was that the proper Heaven, as advertised by the local church?

It was more of a Mosquey variety. I have a local one of those, so close enough.

Miraj

'Miraj' published in 'Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion'

link.springer.com

 

[PTK]

It was more of a Mosquey variety. I have a local one of those, so close enough.

How do these different Heavens compare, I wonder?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

exactly the same for atheists; they protest too much
imho, it's because they live in a dark, hopeless world

View attachment 443980

Atheists protest not enough. What you seem not to have noticed is how the established churches have ruled for hundreds of years, brainwashed as much as they could, stolen wealth from the people in alliance with temporal powers (when they weren't the same), enforced at the point of the sword conformity to their viewpoints and standards, put a stranglehold on intellectual thought and oppressed most of society, given the chance. The world might not be as dark and hopeless if the Catholic Church, for example, simply ceased to exist.

 

[8ball]

Atheists protest not enough. What you seem not to have noticed is how the established churches have ruled for hundreds of years, brainwashed as much as they could, stolen wealth from the people in alliance with temporal powers (when they weren't the same), enforced at the point of the sword conformity to their viewpoints and standards, put a stranglehold on intellectual thought and oppressed most of society, given the chance. The world might not be as dark and hopeless if the Catholic Church, for example, simply ceased to exist.

The bells and the incense are quite popular, though.

 

[PTK]

The bells and the incense are quite popular, though.

The Bells and Incense is my local. Or the Belly Smelly, as some call it.

 

[8ball]

How do these different Heavens compare, I wonder?

They are the same one.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

The bells and the incense are quite popular, though.

I lived close to a village church for some years. Tuesday night bell-ringing was by no means universally popular.

 

[8ball]

I lived close to a village church for some years. Tuesday night bell-ringing was by no means universally popular.

Well, you could always move to South Korea if you don’t like it.

 

[PTK]

They are the same one.

Can this assertion be proved?

 

[PTK]

Well, you could always move to South Korea if you don’t like it.

I bet they have big bells in South Korea too, that they ring.
I bet that there are bells in every country that people ring.

 

[8ball]

Can this assertion be proved?

You could check it out with a few theologians.

 

[bcuster]

Atheists protest not enough. What you seem not to have noticed is how the established churches have ruled for hundreds of years, brainwashed as much as they could, stolen wealth from the people in alliance with temporal powers (when they weren't the same), enforced at the point of the sword conformity to their viewpoints and standards, put a stranglehold on intellectual thought and oppressed most of society, given the chance. The world might not be as dark and hopeless if the Catholic Church, for example, simply ceased to exist.

And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide

 

[8ball]

I bet they have big bells in South Korea too, that they ring.
I bet that there are bells in every country that people ring.

But not necessarily on a Tuesday, to a chorus of whining Yuppies.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Well, you could always move to South Korea if you don’t like it.

1. I don't live there anymore.
2. I wasn't the only one who wasn't impressed.
3. Why South Korea?
4. Why not move the church to South Korea?

 

[8ball]

1. I don't live there anymore.
2. I wasn't the only one who wasn't impressed.
3. Why South Korea?
4. Why not move the church to South Korea?

Ok, Iran then.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide

I think at this point I'll just ask you kindly to fuck off.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Ok, Iran then.

You haven't answered any of my four points, just attempted to neatly sidestep them. But I noticed your failure. You now have only two chances remaining.

 

[8ball]

I think at this point I'll just ask you kindly to fuck off.

Bit testy.
It’s not even Tuesday.

 

[bcuster]

I think at this point I'll just ask you kindly to fuck off.

OK, Oliver...

 

[PTK]

And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide

And atheists have done what good? The modern age is dominated by atheistic philosophy, agnosticism and nihilism. Ours is an age of death and destruction brought to by atheistic utopianism...

Your national hero Cromwell persecuted the Catholic Church almost to extinction in England and Ireland. I supposed you'd be a happier little atheist had he fully succeeded in his genocide

Are not the actions of Cromwell to which you refer evidence in favour of the case put by the person against whom you are arguing?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Bit testy.
It’s not even Tuesday.

It will be soon enough.