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The Trump presidency

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I hope everyone had a good time ob the demo's today. I'm sure we all did, and aren't just venting pointlessly on the internet :)

(well over 2k in Sheffield, biggest demo in years)

I was out at the local demo. Biggest demo seen here in years as well.

I overheard stuff about how this ban was planned by Obama all along and how they're therefore all as bad as each other. This particular half-truth is getting good mileage at the moment.
 
These are not big-picture thinkers we're dealing with here. More like a group of children given sledgehammers and left alone in the school with zero adult supervision.

Actually I'm now pretty convinced that someone here (Bannon probaby) knows exactly what they're doing. This is not politics done by idiots, it's trolling on a global scale executed by a master of the form. And as with all trolls it's not the content that matters but the reaction, and the snowballing conflict which follows.
 
I got there quite early when buses were still passing through (just). By the time I left it was massively busy. Good natured crowd, fairly young (I'm 45). The pa for the speeches was appalling. Didn't work and was tiny, plus ca change etc.
 
I was out at the local demo. Biggest demo seen here in years as well.

I overheard stuff about how this ban was planned by Obama all along and how they're therefore all as bad as each other. This particular half-truth is getting good mileage at the moment.

Trump is pushing this lie himself and his acolytes are lapping it up.

Trump’s facile claim that his refugee policy is similar to Obama’s in 2011

The only news report that we could find that referred to a six-month ban was a 2013 ABC News article that included this line: “As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News — even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets.”

The “Kentucky case” refers to two Iraqis in Kentucky who in May 2011 were arrested and faced federal terrorism charges after officials discovered from an informant that Waad Ramadan Alwan, before he had been granted asylum in the United States, had constructed improvised roadside bombs in Iraq. The FBI, after examining fragments from thousands of bomb parts, found Alwan’s fingerprints on a cordless phone that had been wired to detonate an improvised bomb in 2005.

The arrests caused an uproar in Congress, and the Obama administration pledged to reexamine the records of 58,000 Iraqis who had been settled in the United States. The administration also imposed new, more extensive background checks on Iraqi refugees. Media reports at the time focused on how the new screening procedures had delayed visa approvals, even as the United States was preparing to end its involvement in the Iraq War.


In brief, some ways in which Obama's action in 2011 was not like Trumps in 2017:

- It only affected people coming in as refugees, not visitors or people who already had residence.
- It slowed the speed of approvals due to enhanced vetting, but did not stop them altogether.
- All relevant authorities were involved in implementing the changes and there weren't thousands of people suddenly being turned away at airports.
- It involved people from one country (Iraq) and applied regardless of religious affiliation.

So, you can try refuting the lies with that, not that it will make a difference. Plenty of folk in social media land still believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya and the stuff about Hilary Clinton and the paedophile ring in the pizza parlour.
 
Which makes it pretty depressing to hear it trotted out by punters at an anti-trump protest.
Well, there were plenty folk who were against Trump, but still trotted out what turned out to be lies about Clinton and Obama, sometimes as an excuse for not voting for Clinton. So, I'm not surprised at this one.

I hope each and every person who said any variation on, "Well, there's really no difference between Clinton and Trump, so I'll not vote/I'll vote for a third party/I'll vote for Trump, " stubs their toe daily for the rest of their lives, gets attacked by mosquitoes on every future holiday and has a recurrent nasty stench emanating from their kitchen sink for eternity. :mad:
 
I hope each and every person who said any variation on, "Well, there's really no difference between Clinton and Trump, so I'll not vote/I'll vote for a third party/I'll vote for Trump, " stubs their toe daily for the rest of their lives, gets attacked by mosquitoes on every future holiday and has a recurrent nasty stench emanating from their kitchen sink for eternity. :mad:

Unless they lived in Michigan, it probably wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
 
I got there quite early when buses were still passing through (just). By the time I left it was massively busy. Good natured crowd, fairly young (I'm 45). The pa for the speeches was appalling. Didn't work and was tiny, plus ca change etc.
We could hear someone talking in the distance, but could never tell who or what they were saying.

Felt a bit sorry for the buses, vans and private cars that had got stuck in the crowds. Lord knows how long they were/will be there! :eek: :(
 
So, floating around a few right wing US Twitter accounts this last week has been interesting. Tonight, everyone is up in arms about Starbucks goal of employing refugees and calling for a boycott and suddenly caring that veterans and poor people don't have jobs and how can they give them to foreigners. Obv, not exactly thinking Starbucks are heroes of the hour necessarily and might just like the cheap labour, but it's definitely pissed off the Trumpists (Trumpets?).

The other thing I hadn't been aware of before is an obsession on the Right with George Soros, who is allegedly bankrolling protestors etc. I guess as he's a well known liberal billionaire (and presumably being Jewish adds to the charge sheet). There's a lot of 'the Soros this' and 'the Soros that'.
 
Trump is pushing this lie himself and his acolytes are lapping it up.

Trump’s facile claim that his refugee policy is similar to Obama’s in 2011

The only news report that we could find that referred to a six-month ban was a 2013 ABC News article that included this line: “As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News — even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets.”

The “Kentucky case” refers to two Iraqis in Kentucky who in May 2011 were arrested and faced federal terrorism charges after officials discovered from an informant that Waad Ramadan Alwan, before he had been granted asylum in the United States, had constructed improvised roadside bombs in Iraq. The FBI, after examining fragments from thousands of bomb parts, found Alwan’s fingerprints on a cordless phone that had been wired to detonate an improvised bomb in 2005.

The arrests caused an uproar in Congress, and the Obama administration pledged to reexamine the records of 58,000 Iraqis who had been settled in the United States. The administration also imposed new, more extensive background checks on Iraqi refugees. Media reports at the time focused on how the new screening procedures had delayed visa approvals, even as the United States was preparing to end its involvement in the Iraq War.


In brief, some ways in which Obama's action in 2011 was not like Trumps in 2017:

- It only affected people coming in as refugees, not visitors or people who already had residence.
- It slowed the speed of approvals due to enhanced vetting, but did not stop them altogether.
- All relevant authorities were involved in implementing the changes and there weren't thousands of people suddenly being turned away at airports.
- It involved people from one country (Iraq) and applied regardless of religious affiliation.

So, you can try refuting the lies with that, not that it will make a difference. Plenty of folk in social media land still believe Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya and the stuff about Hilary Clinton and the paedophile ring in the pizza parlour.
What about at the demo you were at?
 
According to the Trump administration the ban is temporary and covers 7 countries which are in, or close to conflict, and is designed to give time to overhaul the filtering system so as to prevent the infiltration of daesh terrorists.

So, my question is, what filters were already put in place? Weren't they strict enough already in the USA? What are the real and not rumoured consecuences of this ban?

Can anyone point me to an objective editorial on this whole issue of the ban? Far from the Trumpeters and the Lilly Allen clones in meltdown.
 
According to the Trump administration the ban is temporary and covers 7 countries which are in, or close to conflict, and is designed to give time to overhaul the filtering system so as to prevent the infiltration of daesh terrorists.

So, my question is, what filters were already put in place? Weren't they strict enough already in the USA?
Missing the point: it wasn't wholly unreasonable (though still debatable, obviously) to have extreme vetting in place for people coming from jihadi conflict areas, as had been the case in previous administrations. What Trump did was to apply a sudden blanket ban, without warning to the border agency, airlines, or anyone, and to apply it indiscriminately to everyone born in or travelling from the designated territories, including those with green cards and visas - causing chaos, and immense distress and fear. People who previously imagined they were entitled to come and go suddenly found they might have to wait 90 days for clearance, leaving them apart from family, having to find and pay for accommodation, without income, and at risk of losing homes and jobs. No wonder there were protests.

In the protests there has been a fair bit of conflation of the Trump-induced chaos with the (questionable) status quo and the right have been making hay of that and talking about hysteria.
 
Quite a bit of alarm about the edit to the White House website section "Our Government," to exclude the Judicial branch. Scroll to the bottom and look at the right corner.

In 8th Grade (age 12 or 13) I had to take a test on the constitution to graduate and go to high school. In my senior year (age 17 or 18) we had to complete a year long class on US Government, including another test on the constitution. The idea that the THREE branches of government are the foundation of the US constitution gets burned into our brain. It's absolutely impossible that this would have been an oversight, and even if it were a case of extremely sloppy web editing, why hasn't it been corrected?

View attachment 99674

tis there ..............
 
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