CRI
Registered Chooser
It's not just the President that's the problem here though.
The Trump presidency
- Thread starter brogdale
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
where one or more states declares their wish to secede from the union.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Oh. I wouldn't have thought of that as a precursor to civil war, but what would I know anyway?
I thought it was only Texas that had preserved the right of secession - are there others? I'd imagine that secession would be a nightmare of almost Brexit proportions, but would it lead to war?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it has done before.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Any of those, with the possible exception of civil war, would be even more hair-grabbingly dangerous really. Can you imagine the witch-hunt and show-trials the new regime would conduct. There'd be a very serious investigation of "how the Russians were able to insert a foreign agent as POTUS, which"- the new regime would have to very loudly and strongly insist in order to shore-up their position "is clearly and unmistakably an Act of War!!1!"
I hope Trump will just do his four years an fuck off without doing any irreversible damage to human-kind. Nice to see how well he's been bringing people across the world together again though, and re-invigorating the Left. Trump the Uniter.
CRI
Registered Chooser
I don't think you can really count anything but the actual US civil war of the mid 19th century to be honest.
The civil rights, women's liberation, gay rights, etc. protests of the 60's and early 70's were really just pushing along policy changes that were already in the pipeline to a certain degree. They were about extending rights to groups of marginalised people. It mirrored similar action in other parts of the world as well, and unfolded over a longer period of time. The body count was also fairly low.
The difference now is protests are/will be against the government taking away rights from people on a massive scale who previously had them (e.g. legal immigrants to the US, refugees, people seeking contraception and abortion, LGBT people, indigenous people, etc.)
You could argue that the US civil war was about the government trying to abolish slave holding, which the Southern states viewed as an erosion of their rights, leading to succession and then the war. That's perhaps closer to what's happening now, but it's not cut so neatly along geographical lines. It's still nowhere near the same though. This is more like what you see as the response to the rise of authoritarianism.
CRI
Registered Chooser
I thought that would have been obvious!
You added assassination of the president to the list of potential next steps in this crisis.
The second and third in line of succession espouse the same views as the current president. And, indications are that it's the "team" around Trump that are calling most of the shots, and they wouldn't be going away quietly.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Yes, succession from the union itself would not be a declaration of war. There is also a successionist movement in California, with strong ties to Russian nationalists.
I suppose it depends on how one defines civil war. It's not something that has to be a "declared" war - even Vietnam is still regarded as a "conflict" and not an actual war. Surely if the government continues to restrict citizen rights and citizens fight back, that is or could become a civil war.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
According to this M of A - Outrage About Trump Exposes "Librul" Hypocrisy Trumps muslim-countries-ban actually built on Obama's work. Pretty much sums up a lot of the anti-Trump outrage for me. What Obama did or what Clinton would have done wouldn't have brought people out onto the streets or brought the entire echo-chamber of the mainstream media together in one big shout of indignation. It's all shit of the same substance though. "throw the buggers out" as they say.
teqniq
DisMembered
You may also like to note that he is using the SOHR as a source to bolster his position. This is a source that he has repeatedly dismissed on the Syria thread using terms such as 'some random bloke in his bedroom in Coventry' or similar to reinforce the impression that the source is unreliable. So along with this and him quoting the Torygraph on the older Trump thread, irony is truly dead.
gosub
~#
He has already filed his paperwork with intention to stand in 2020, and is already running fund raising attack adverts on US tv
CRI
Registered Chooser
Well yeah, and probably just sharing that petition to keep Trump out of the UK would be enough to get someone booted.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Doesn't mean he'd win again, I've no doubt Trump wouldn't mind being declared God Emperor for All Eternity-or-at-Least-Until-The-Melted-Ice-Caps-Wash-Us-All-Away and has already filed the necessary paper-work somewhere.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I think it's a bit more than mere hypocrisy . It's hypocritical outrage being manipulated for political ends .
I don't remember any of these judges or politicians calling Obamas ban on Iraqi refugees unconstitutional and overturning them . No constitutional crisis . All of a sudden they and media are agenda free champions of human rights etc . Not buying that bollocks for a minute .
I'm not for an instant saying don't be annoyed about this and don't protest against his visit..I'd love to see the chaos...but anyone who thinks there aren't bigger agendas and power plays in the works behind all this media activity , hypocrisy and partisan posturing is living in la la land . I don't fancy being someone's puppet/ useful idiot for one .
gosub
~#
Question?: who looks after the nuclear codes between a President losing an election and a new one being inaugurated?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
CRI
Registered Chooser
You are quoting Moon of Alabama? Seriously? Jesus Christ on a fucking bike.
I know this is from the Mirror, but it does unpick the line being pushed by fundamentalist Christian Trump acolytes and Breitbart loving Bannon fans that, "Oh Trump is just doing what Obama was already doing but the liberal media won't tell you that. . . " bullshit.
No, Barack Obama and Jimmy Carter didn't do the same thing as Donald Trump's Muslim ban
Supporters of the President's unprecedented Muslim ban are screaming hypocrisy. But there are some important differences with what previous Presidents have done
CRI
Registered Chooser
The "biscuit" passed from Obama to Trump on inauguration day. The "football" is held by the Secret Service guy who goes with the President at all times.
In the past, the president remains the president until the moment the next one is sworn in. Trump started issuing proclamations the minute the vote result was called. That's never, ever happened before.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
The outgoing president is president until the incoming one is sworn in. If the missiles started flying at 11am on January 19th, then Obama would have the power to retaliate.
gosub
~#
Houston, we have a problem...
not-bono-ever
meh
So how long until there are deaths on the streets as a result of management of dissent ?
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
You are quoting Moon of Alabama? Seriously? Jesus Christ on a fucking bike.
I know this is from the Mirror, but it does unpick the line being pushed by fundamentalist Christian Trump acolytes and Breitbart loving Bannon fans that, "Oh Trump is just doing what Obama was already doing but the liberal media won't tell you that. . . " bullshit.
No, Barack Obama and Jimmy Carter didn't do the same thing as Donald Trump's Muslim ban
Supporters of the President's unprecedented Muslim ban are screaming hypocrisy. But there are some important differences with what previous Presidents have done
You're after posting up a pile of utter bollocks there ,hardly surprising given its source . It's riven with inaccuracy . Unsurprisingly it's the mirror as I doubt many others would want that rubbish on their record .
And it's not just supporters of his visa ban pointing out the hypocrisy either. That's more bollocks to add to the heap . It's just shilling .
You quoted the fucking mirror and you're whining at him quoting Mof A ?
Stop taking the piss please .
Treacle Toes
Time
How do you know what would have happened and how people would have reacted? Pure speculation on your part.
Previous administrations will have looked at different responses to growing fears of terror attacks that isn't a surprise at all. How many years has the US been bombing the Middle East now?
The fact that AgentOrange has built on previous drafts (that were never used) of a potential ban/control on visa/entry and has blanket banned/implemented it for no apparent reason other than to flex his fucking muscles is what you should be focusing on.
People are outraged for good reason. It's not actually hypocrisy just because you want to use a hypothetical, imagined scenario to posit it is.
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Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
I saw footage of the national guard intervening in riots in (I think it was) Detroit. It didn't look that different from Belfast or Derry.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yeah, I suppose that shows that things can get pretty bad without it having to be called "civil war".
phillm
Trolling through Life (TM)
That's a given apart from the deep state spooks who will be no doubt long term admired posters.
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