the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[tufty79]

cheers for the reply, salem.

 

[salem]

Ah, sorry I only just dipped into the last thread and don't know any of the background. Certainly, it's best to err on the safe side and dial 101. Was just adding a little background in case you weren't aware.

 

[tufty79]

no worries - i didn't give you any context! and thank you, your input was food for thought (as all the recent stuff has been - lots of chewing over in my brane).

 

[elbows]

Good blog piece by Jon Snow:

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/sexual-watershed/19876

Music schools, parliament, the church, the media, allegations are flying around the corridors of virtually every institution in Britain. The Savile aftermath is having a vast effect on many who as children and adults were abused by others.

What we now know too is Savile did not just blow the lid off management structures at the BBC, but more importantly, his vile exploits also exposed the institutional tolerance of the established media to gross misbehaviour, so long as the celebrity was big enough.

One small comfort we can take is that many of us have truly been through a genuine sexual revolution – both in attitudes and behaviorally. Some have not. Some tabloids still have a long way to go, some of their websites still further. Indeed, the demand indicates many consumers may have a ways to travel too.

This is a dramatic moment in the affairs of men and women; we shall all be tested. But don’t underestimate what this time means to the abused. I know, I was six years old when a member of the domestic staff at the school, where my father taught, abducted me.

He took me to his room and undressed me, and then himself. Thank heavens someone saw the abduction and eventually a member of staff intervened and rescued me. I remember to this day fretting over not being able to do my braces up. And I admit that I have found Savile regurgitating the guilt and confusion that I felt.

No amount of effort in responding to complainants must be spared, but neither must it be allowed to become a witch-hunt. We face some delicate balances in which the welfare of many is at stake. But I suspect the journey has only just begun.

 

[existentialist]

Interesting, although I'd take issue with the "although the celebrity was big enough" statement - I think that institutions were (and maybe still are) tolerant of gross misbehaviour regardless of the celebrity of the offender. If they feel that they have anything to lose by being intolerant of such misbehaviour they will avoid tackling the problem.

 

[elbows]

The Scarborough ice cream magnate turned mayor story that got some local press attention due to a Savile link has progressed somewhat:

http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/local/ex-mayor-was-a-sex-pest-says-councillor-1-5432916

A Scarborough councillor has spoken out about how he was “propositioned” at the age of 14 by former mayor and ice cream king Peter Jaconelli.

Cllr Geoff Evans, now 64, claims the late 21-stone politician inappropriately embraced him when he visited his ice cream parlour in the early 1960s.
He said: “It was quite obvious what he was doing.
“I was quite surprised as it was in the middle of his shop while someone else was serving.
“I managed to get free and I didn’t tell anyone. I was rather surprised as I didn’t think men did things like that. I didn’t even know him.

He claims authorities, including the police and council, were aware of the issue but did not take any action.
Now, he is calling for other victims to come forward in an attempt to strip Jaconelli of his honorary alderman title in line with a similar move to remove Savile’s freeman of the borough status.

Cllr Evans, who represents the Eastfield ward on Scarborough Council, decided to come forward after being party to an email which alleged Jaconelli was a “predatory paedophile”.
The sensational claims were made by former resident Trevor Harrington in a letter to the authority’s chief executive Jim Dillon, which has been obtained by The Scarborough News.
“Proud Scarborian” Mr Harrington, who now lives in Australia, wrote that he was a member of Jaconelli’s Ippon Judo Club and also worked in his ice cream parlours.
Also calling for his alderman status to be revoked, he said: “I can confirm from personal experience that he was a predatory paedophile who preyed on local children.”
Jaconelli ran a hugely successful ice cream business with several restaurants. Known as the town’s Ice Cream King, he died in 1999, aged 73.

 

[cloudfall]

How do you know Big Daddy was a abuser too?? Not saying i think he is not just i also think the same!

Any update on this, which wrestler has been spilling the beans

 

[Greebo]

The Scarborough ice cream magnate turned mayor story that got some local press attention due to a Savile link has progressed somewhat<snip>

Thanks for the update.

 

[elbows]

And so the director of public prosecutions has spoken of how things got imbalanced towards paying too much attention to the credibility of victims and not enough on the credibility of suspects:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21673703

In a speech later, Mr Starmer is expected to say "we cannot afford another Savile moment".
Hundreds of cases where there was no prosecution could be re-examined.

Mr Starmer said many victims did not have the confidence to come forward and the standards used for establishing the credibility of someone making an allegation can mean vulnerable victims are not believed.
This is because complainants often have characteristics - such as a distrust of authority and alcohol issues - which both make them vulnerable and put their credibility in doubt.
In future, investigators will be expected to test the credibility of an allegation by focusing on the suspect as well as the alleged victim.
"At the moment there is a great deal of focus on whether the victim is telling the truth. We need to look equally carefully at the account the suspect has given - look at the context, the pattern of behaviour and make the necessary links," Mr Starmer said.

The review panel will look at cases where people have come forward but the case has not proceeded. The panel will then advise chief constables on whether the case should be reopened. Mr Starmer says he expects the number of cases to be in the "hundreds not thousands".

The article also mentions some miscarriages of justice a decade ago that contributed to the inadequate stance:

BBC Home Affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said some wrongful convictions over historic child abuse a decade ago saw the justice pendulum swing toward a more sceptical approach.

But he said after the Jimmy Savile affair there was a sense "the pendulum needs re-positioning again".

Mark Newby, a solicitor who formed a panel to look at historic child abuse allegations, said he was "gravely concerned" the balance might be shifted too far in favour of the victim.
"We have to be really careful not to create a whole new genre of miscarriage because of the current atmosphere and pandemonium over these cases," he told BBC Radio 4 Today's programme.

"A new genre of miscarriages of justice has arisen from the over-enthusiastic pursuit of these allegations". Those were the words of the Home Affairs Committee in 2002 after hundreds of people had been investigated about historical child abuse in children's homes and other institutions.

Many were wrongfully convicted and as a result the justice pendulum swung the other way: police adopted a more sceptical approach and prosecutors were more picky about the cases they took to trial.

The difficulty, as Keir Starmer acknowledges, is to set the right balance - so that investigators adopt a less cautious approach to what victims say while testing and questioning their accounts.
Experience suggests it won't be easy: expect a few cases to go wrong before things settle down.

I suppose when I find some time I'll have to see what the panel were looking at in 2002, anybody know examples of the miscarriages of justice? As best I remember the only related concepts we've mentioned here have been the words of the dead bloke whose name escapes me that wrote books & articles about how the care home stuff was totally overblown. A man who on initial inspection did not appear to have 'his pendulum positioned in the right spot' as he went way off in the other direction to the extent that did not seem to me to be helpful to victims.

 

[elbows]

I see the latest report looking at police handling of Savile is out.

The earliest known missed opportunity to investigate Savile was in 1963 when a male victim reported to Cheshire police that he had been raped by Savile, according to the report. An officer told the victim to “forget about it”.

In 1964 intelligence about Savile was entered into a ledger used by the Met’s paedophile unit. It said the DJ had visited an address used by girls who had absconded from Duncroft Approved School in Surrey. There is no record of any investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21750548

There are later instances too but I found those first few the most interesting.

 

[Firky]

This does wonders for thing post Jimmy Saville and Reddard... I haven't quoted the whole thing but it is one of the most rank pieces I have ever read in the DM.

The outrageous confessions of an upper-class Lolita

The legendary actor Laurence Olivier was an acquaintance of my father’s, who had rented a holiday house not far from where Olivier was staying.

My father and I had been invited to lunch that day. The others had gone swimming, leaving Olivier and I alone. He asked me how old I was, and I told him I was 15.

‘ “San Quentin quail” as they used to say in Hollywood,’ he replied.
‘What’s that?’ I asked, puzzled, blissfully ignorant of his reference to the notorious jail.
‘Forbidden fruit, my dear. What a pity. You have such a lovely little figure.’

Once I was perched on his lap, Olivier planted a wet kiss on my lips. It was not a pleasant experience, since his breath smelt like a starving coyote’s. He complimented me on my breasts, touching one of them with his hand. Then he sighed and released me, thanking me for being ‘kind to an old man’.

I had never felt more flattered in my life and, on the journey home, I burst out gleefully: ‘He groped me! Laurence Olivier groped me!’

Did my father choke on my words and threaten vengeance? No, he laughed.
‘The old devil! Did he do anything else?’
When I said Olivier had also kissed me, my father asked: ‘Did you enjoy it?’ Many will argue that my father should have been thrown into jail with Olivier. But when I was growing up, so many of my father’s friends made passes at me that if I had sued each one, I would still be in court to this day.

As well as Olivier, there was broadcaster Robin Day, the actor Albert Finney and Lord Lambton, the notorious Conservative minister who was secretly photographed smoking cannabis in bed with two prostitutes.

There were other politicians, too, and members of the peerage, who are still alive as I write.
Rightly or wrongly, I was brought up to believe that this sort of thing was simply a part of life. If a man found a young girl pretty, it was in his genes to want to make a pass at her.

So you cannot blame me for thinking that it is often precocious and predatory girls who should be arrested, and not the men who show an opportunistic interest in them.

After all, it was Eve who tempted Adam.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...essions-upper-class-Lolita.html#ixzz2NJcoDGcg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Meltingpot]

This does wonders for thing post Jimmy Saville and Reddard... I haven't quoted the whole thing but it is one of the most rank pieces I have ever read in the DM.

The outrageous confessions of an upper-class Lolita






Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...essions-upper-class-Lolita.html#ixzz2NJcoDGcg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Petronella Wyatt .... oh no....

 

[killer b]

it's a massive troll firky. it even says 'this is a massive troll' at the top of the article ffs.

 

[butchersapron]

I see the latest report looking at police handling of Savile is out.





http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21750548

There are later instances too but I found those first few the most interesting.

Would like to say that i'm shocked or surprised - but that wouldn't be true. That the worst of his behaviour (as far as we know at this point anyway) was present when he was in his mid 30s suggests whole decades of activity prior to this first reported (male) rape.

 

[Firky]

it's a massive troll firky. it even says 'this is a massive troll' at the top of the article ffs.

It's f'ing rank.

 

[elbows]

Stupid beliefs alert:

During the interview, in which Roache discussed recent sex abuse scandals, Roache said: "If you accept that you are pure love, and if you know that you are pure love and therefore live that pure love, these things won't happen to you."
Interviewer Garth Bray replied: "To some people that sounds perhaps like you're saying victims bring things on themselves - is that what you're saying?"
Roache replied: "No, not quite.. and yet I am, because everything that happens to us has been a result of what we have been in previous lives or whatever."

In the interview, Roache also talked about people who are accused of abuse, saying: "If someone has done something wrong, the law should take its course... whether they're proven guilty or not, we should not be judgmental about anybody, ever.
"We should all be totally forgiving about everything."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21843139

or whatever.

 

[Wilf]

I never thought Hoddle could be out-Hoddled.

What an offensive, stupid, fuckwitted clown.

 

[TopCat]

Stupid beliefs alert:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-21843139

or whatever.

He is an actor content to play the same role for his whole life. May I suggest this means he is not the brightest light bulb in the box?

 

[elbows]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dden-investigating-officers-brass-police.html

​

Hundreds of files on celebrities, politicians and other VIPs accused of sex attacks and abuse were so heavily protected by senior police that investigating officers could not access them, it emerged today.​

​

Information on high profile suspects was marked as 'secret' or 'restricted' and only available to a small number of officers - a system which may have helped prolific offenders like Jimmy Savile and MP Cyril Smith escape prosecution.​

​

The approach to sensitive files was designed to stop officers from leaking information to the media, experts say.​

​

The issue of detectives being unable to access relevant intelligence was highlighted in a report on the effectiveness of the Police National Database (PND) in the wake of the Savile scandal.​

​

​

​

​

 

[laptop]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dden-investigating-officers-brass-police.html

​

​

​

Aye, the Times led on something similar.

The punchline there was also that the secrecy was: "to stop officers from leaking information to the media".

So it's a cynical intervention in the argument over press regulation, at least POV timing of the story...

 

[Espresso]

William Roache says we should all be totally forgiving about everything and not judgemental? Blimey, he wasn't so forgiving when he sued The Sun for libel when they said he was boring.
Daft bastard.

 

[pinkmonkey]

The Scarborough ice cream magnate turned mayor story that got some local press attention due to a Savile link has progressed somewhat:

http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/local/ex-mayor-was-a-sex-pest-says-councillor-1-5432916

This is chilling me and my parents to the bone, as kids (between the ages of 8 and 15) we spent hours down the seafront unaccompanied as did plenty of other kids.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Interesting, although I'd take issue with the "although the celebrity was big enough" statement - I think that institutions were (and maybe still are) tolerant of gross misbehaviour regardless of the celebrity of the offender. If they feel that they have anything to lose by being intolerant of such misbehaviour they will avoid tackling the problem.

It still goes on, there's a well known fashion photographer in the states who strips naked and encourages young models to masturbate him, egged on by his assistants.
Will he ever be prosecuted? I don't think so.

 

[Pickman's model]

It still goes on, there's a well known fashion photographer in the states who strips naked and encourages young models to masturbate him, egged on by his assistants.
Will he ever be prosecuted? I don't think so.

please could we keep discussion on this thread to sir jimmy savile obe kcsg?

 

[elbows]

Andy Kershaw has had a long and long overdue rant about Savile and the BBC, the wider media, and Esther Rantzen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...y-Savile-scandal-will-not-be-snuffed-out.html

The whole thing is worth a read but here are a couple of highlights.

Every one of these mourners knew better than to pay tribute. For every one of them, as creatures of the media or the entertainment industries, had, for years, heard the persistent rumours about the real Jimmy Savile. Even in death – and for another 12 months – Savile would continue to pull off a public relations swindle of spectacular audacity.

Stories of Savile’s sordid activities were not restricted to those of us within the BBC, although the sanctimonious response of many in the media, once his paedophilia was exposed, was to vilify only employees of the corporation for doing nothing at the time. In fact, on more than one occasion over the years, one tabloid newspaper came very close to outing Savile for his child sex enthusiasms.

Meanwhile, too many of his colleagues in showbiz and the media disregarded a reservoir of appalling rumour, perhaps hoping the gold dust of Savile’s ridiculous celebrity would rub off on them.

Typical of those with 20/20 hindsight was Esther Rantzen. Within a couple of days of the Savile scandal breaking, Esther Rantzen, founder of Childline, and someone not previously shy of hobnobbing with Savile, was asking us to believe she had heard the rumours but had dismissed them as “green room gossip”. Later, and presuming to speak on behalf of the nation, Rantzen popped up on BBC News to wring her hands and claim: “We are all guilty now.”

 

[butchersapron]

Not true:

Since the scandal blew wide open it has been asked endlessly why those of us who had heard of the Savile reality failed to do anything about it. Certainly for those of us on the shop floor at the BBC, not responsible for continuing to hire Savile while these rumours persisted, there was nothing we could do unless, or until, one of three things happened: that one of his poor victims made a successful complaint to the police or to the BBC – and for decades either they didn’t, or were ridiculed when they did; that one of the producers or BBC bosses who had worked closely with Savile on these shows, reported him, instead of sniggering about it in social situations; or – and the idea conjures up a vision too nightmarish to contemplate – one of us caught him in the act. That didn’t happen, either.

 

[elbows]

I certainly think his stance is flawed but since there has been a distinct lack of honesty and exploration of the entire media classes awareness of Savile I considered it a start.

 

[butchersapron]

Not me, Esther, old thing. At Radio 1, as soon as I heard the Savile rumours, I gave the guy a very wide berth. And in my autobiography, No Off Switch, written and first published while Savile was still alive, I hinted as strongly as I could that there may be a darker side, describing him as a “veteran Radio 1 DJ, tireless charity worker, another national institution, widely recognised for his interest in young people”.

This is the same AK who supported TH once it became clear he had been done for paedo stuff in the US and after he brought him, had sponsered over here. No, not enough.

 

[sihhi]

This is the same AK who supported TH once it became clear he had been done for paedo stuff in the US and after he brought him, had sponsered over here. No, not enough.

Who was TH?

I suspect the reality of what his sister had to face might be important here. Liz Kershaw: "I couldn't say anything, I couldn't even explain because I was broadcasting to the nation. When I complained to somebody they were incredulous and said: 'Don't you like it, are you a lesbian?'"

 

[butchersapron]

Ted Hawkins