the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[Maltin]

It would make a great ride in Blackpool

Scarborough would be better.

 

[sihhi]

I wonder if the Savile situation has made any of those snooty authors who kicked off about being CRB checked before frequent school visits change their tune? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8153251.stm

Phillip Pullman, Anthony Horowitz, Anne Fine, Michael Morpurgo - I'm looking at you. No-one is above being CRB checked - doesn't matter if you think you're doing the kids a favour, or if you can't see how you might end up in a position where you've developed a position of trust with a child.

Just to be clear on this, many people resent having to pay - now £70 - for a CRB. The writers and other visitors to schools, because they are not direct employees of anyone have to bear the costs of the CRB themselves and in some cases the CRB lasts for only a year. More generally 'enhanced disclosure' locks out of employment in schools, colleges etc those with convictions for anti-rich crimes, self-defence, drug crimes etc that have zero bearing on abuse to children. This doesn't mean they are in favour of unregulated, they believe the costs should be borne by the government. More generally, the criminal records bureau check is not the right instrument, a better suited more detailed sex offenders register match should replace it. Employers in local authorities use CRB checks - including some councils for park gardeners and beach cleaners - to screen out people with criminal convictions. Authorities, usually the local state, have usurped the idea for their own benefit and in some cases imposed the costs onto the population. In part they do this, so that if anything at all happens, they cannot be held legally responsible, a bureaucratic compliance is beginning to take the place of real vigilance for children.

Councils that are cutting social worker jobs (in several London boroughs an average social worker dealing with at-risk children has a caseload of 20), in the name of 'child protection' are screening out those applying for posts in all sorts of fields.

 

[Wilf]

i know it's obvious to point out, but this things is so chris morris. him and iannucci in the thick of it have a habit of being ridiculously prescient.

Fully expect the Daily Mail to be offering a Brass Eye box set for Savile-nonce stories.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yep, at the very least, the cost of a crb check should be borne by the state. They stop people from doing things.

 

[Barking_Mad]

BBC ignored my Jimmy Savile complaint, claims former director

A former BBC TV director has claimed he blew the whistle about Jimmy Savile having sex with a young girl at the BBC but was ignored when he reported the incident to his bosses.

David Nicolson, now 67, worked with Savile on Jim'll Fix It and Top of the Pops over 10 years and said his bosses just shrugged it off when he told them what he had seen.

He said it is wrong of executives at the corporation to say nobody knew what was going on because "everyone would have known about it".

Nicolson claimed he walked into Savile's dressing room one day and caught him having sex with a "very, very young" girl in his dressing room.

"It was a bog standard changing room in the basement. They both quickly pulled up their pants. The girl could have been 16, maybe 15. But she was just one of many – he always had one in the room," Nicolson told the Sun. "He said 'What do you want, young man?' and shouted at me to get out of the room."

He added: "I was shocked. I had gone in to talk business and quickly got out."

When he reported the incident, he was told "That's Jimmy". "I was revolted by his behaviour. They just shrugged it off, saying 'Yeah, yeah – that's the way it goes.'"

Nicolson told the Sun: "Everyone knew what was going on. That includes senior BBC people – chiefs at the highest levels.

"There were always girls in Jimmy's dressing room. Everyone would have known about it – all the hair and makeup people, the wardrobe, show directors, producers."

He said on the set of Jim'll Fix It, Savile would always bring "scruffy girls into the studios – all teenagers. But no questions were ever asked."

The allegations against Savile are mounting by the day, with the National Association for People Abused in Childhood saying it had been "inundated with calls". Chief executive Pete Saunders said two former patients at Stoke Mandeville hospital had phoned the agency on Thursday to say that not only had they been abused by Savile but also by a doctor.

On Thursday claims were made by former patients at the rehabilitation hospital and the Leeds General Infirmary that Savile used his position as a charity worker there to prey on vulnerable children. One former patient at the Leeds hospital said she witnessed him molesting a brain-damaged girl. And the Guardian has been told of claims that he raped a victim at the Broadmoor high security psychiatric hospital.

The BBC has set up an informal investigation headed by Ken MacQuarrie, a BBC official who has overall responsibility for BBC Scotland, into the decision in December 2011 to drop a Newsnight report containing sexual abuse allegations against Savile.

Rob Wilson, a Tory MP and aide to the health secretary demanded an independent inquiry into Stoke Mandeville.

"There is some confusion [on Thursday] about the status of what the BBC is doing with regard to its internal review of the decision to drop its Newsnight investigation, he said. "But it still rather odd that, one day after announcing it would hold an 'independent' inquiry headed by an outsider, the BBC announces a separate internal inquiry/review into its decision to shelve a major report detailing Savile's sexual abuse crimes. Why have one internal investigation for one aspect of the corporation's conduct and an 'independent' inquiry for all the rest?"

Savile's former driver has claimed in the Daily Mirror that the presenter used to lure vulnerable girls as young as 12 during fundraising events at hospitals. The wife of Dennis Garbutt, who now suffers dementia, said her husband told her that Savile would say to him 'Go and get a cup of tea, Den' as a signal to leave him alone. "We both feel bad that we never said anything to the police," Lucy Garbutt said.

Meanwhile, the ITV team behind the Exposure documentary that first aired the claims against Savile says a fourth TV personality has been accused of abusing a young woman. "We have had a name given to use which is so far not in the public domain. It relates to a celebrity, a media personality, who is alive," ITV said in a statement. Mark Williams-Thomas, the child abuse expert who made the programme, confirmed that since it was aired he has also been approached about another celebrity.

 

[_angel_]

I wonder if the Savile situation has made any of those snooty authors who kicked off about being CRB checked before frequent school visits change their tune? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8153251.stm

Phillip Pullman, Anthony Horowitz, Anne Fine, Michael Morpurgo - I'm looking at you. No-one is above being CRB checked - doesn't matter if you think you're doing the kids a favour, or if you can't see how you might end up in a position where you've developed a position of trust with a child.

Yes but an abuser with no convictions still gets in.

 

[Wilf]

BBC ignored my Jimmy Savile complaint, claims former director

Perhaps an obvious point, but it's no longer a 'nobody knew' story, but an 'everybody knew but did nothing' story.

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps an obvious point, but it's no longer a 'nobody knew' story, but an 'everybody knew but did nothing' story.

first he abused the schoolgirls...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes but an abuser with no convictions still gets in.

Indeed. Someone like J Savile, for instance. I don't oppose crb checks completely, in limited circumstances, but they are not the cure-all some people seem to think they are, and there is the danger that they lead to a false sense of security. And people volunteering to do stuff for nothing are stopped by the need for a crb check.

There is a bit of a logic fail in cases like this, when people hold them up as an example of the need for crb checks. It's actually an example of the limited value of crb checks.

 

[quimcunx]

There's something very 'hidden in plain view' about it (for the majority of people who only knew him only from tv/public life). Even without the vague rumours that float around the ether, he was perceived as 'creepy’, ‘odd’ etc. He certainly came across as remarkably unpersonable for someone whose job in effect was to be personable. But then you tell yourself that it’s a wackiness, an oddness that was promoted, exaggerated, taken on; the weird yellow/white hair, the cigar, the gold chains, the tracksuits, the exaggerated mannerisms. That’s what it is. Even though every time you see him on telly and feel a bit repulsed by him during an interview about running a marathon charity of all things it’s just that you don’t like the persona. He’s just an odd bod. Doesn’t make him a bad person. And that the ‘oddness’, the feeling of unease about this weirdo is because he’s a weirdo for those things. You don’t need to look further.

 

[two sheds]

There is a bit of a logic fail in cases like this, when people hold them up as an example of the need for crb checks. It's actually an example of the limited value of crb checks.

Also the length of time it takes to get them. A friend couldn't take up a job because the crb check wasn't through - she's on the dole and is skint.

Is the process not automated? Surely it should just be a question of just entering the name into the system which would immediately give a result. Five seconds you'd think rather than six weeks.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Yep, at the very least, the cost of a crb check should be borne by the state. They stop people from doing things.

Isn't that what was going to happen for authors visiting schools?

Only authors who plan to go into schools regularly - once a month or more - will have to be registered. And the government has said the fees will be paid for authors, provided they are not being paid to visit schools.

What I'm getting at - is statements like these

In essence, I'm being asked to pay £64 to prove that I am not a paedophile.
"After 30 years writing books, visiting schools, hospitals, prisons, spreading an enthusiasm for culture and literacy, I find this incredibly insulting

Anne Fine, author of more than 50 books including the Killer Cat series, told the Independent the rules would leave children "further impoverished" and that she would only visit foreign schools in future.
"The whole idea of vetting any adult who visits many schools, but each only for a day, and then always in the presence of other adults, is deeply offensive," she added

Which struck me as out of order at the time, now seem even more so. These authors might not have been able to imagine a situation where someone ostensibly doing good work in schools acquired a position of trust and then abused it, but now they don't have to. Because it's happened in a rather spectacular way that's all over the newspapers.

 

[Orang Utan]

some schools don't require CRB checks if you're not going to be left alone with kids, but some do and there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it, it just depends on the individual school. so it must be frustrating if you're doing a tour of schools, esp considering how long CRBs take to come through.

 

[Lord Camomile]

some schools don't require CRB checks if you're not going to be left alone with kids, but some do and there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to it, it just depends on the individual school. so it must be frustrating if you're doing a tour of schools, esp considering how long CRBs take to come through.

If you're planning a nationwide tour of schools, I figure you're probably spending enough time on it to add getting a CRB check without causing too many problems.

 

[Orang Utan]

If you're planning a nationwide tour of schools, I figure you're probably spending enough time on it to add getting a CRB check without causing too many problems.

fair point

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Isn't that what was going to happen for authors visiting schools?
.

My martial arts dojo has stopped taking kids. It would cost us £140 to be covered by crb checks (two coaches minimum required for insurance). We don't get paid for teaching, and we've decided not to do it.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Who wants to be the first to question the mental health of political correctness?

 

[Wilf]

There's something very 'hidden in plain view' about it (for the majority of people who only knew him only from tv/public life). Even without the vague rumours that float around the ether, he was perceived as 'creepy’, ‘odd’ etc. He certainly came across as remarkably unpersonable for someone whose job in effect was to be personable. But then you tell yourself that it’s a wackiness, an oddness that was promoted, exaggerated, taken on; the weird yellow/white hair, the cigar, the gold chains, the tracksuits, the exaggerated mannerisms. That’s what it is. Even though every time you see him on telly and feel a bit repulsed by him during an interview about running a marathon charity of all things it’s just that you don’t like the persona. He’s just an odd bod. Doesn’t make him a bad person. And that the ‘oddness’, the feeling of unease about this weirdo is because he’s a weirdo for those things. You don’t need to look further.

Must admit, till Louis Theroux asked him (2000?) I'd never even slightly thought he might have been an abuser, mainly I suppose because I had hardly thought about him at all for years. I do remember his interview with Anthony Clare where he explained his caravan-lonerism-never been in love thing in terms of what you see is what you get with me. That was a theme also in the Theroux film, though I also remember thinking how deeply unpleasant and aggressive he was also (though again without it ringing alarm bells). Ultimately of course the 'I don't have a home, keep on the move' thing was 100% a deception, there was something else going on - a lifestyle built round oppportunites to abuse the vulnerable. Really was hidden in plain site - with the paradox that his brazen self confidence did produce complaint after complaint. Again, obvious point alert, but whilst Savile is the Monster here he's the bit of continuity. The real issue is the disempowerment (even if I hate that word) of kids, particularly in institutions, laddish assumptions about older men and younger women/girls, poor police investigations and a complicit media, who would have heard just as many 'green room rumours' as the BBC.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Also the length of time it takes to get them. A friend couldn't take up a job because the crb check wasn't through - she's on the dole and is skint.

Is the process not automated? Surely it should just be a question of just entering the name into the system which would immediately give a result. Five seconds you'd think rather than six weeks.

Only semi-automated (to generate the files). The actual cross-checking has to be done manually.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I had a CRB check done recently (for t'Olympics) and when I eventually got it it had my correct details at the top but in the list of various categories it had a note about someone with the same surname as me, DOB couple of years before me, saying something along the lines of "this person is not allowed to work with children or vulnerable adults". Got another one in the post a few days later with an apologetic note, but was a bit weird.

For the record, I am totally allowed to work with children or vulnerable adults.

 

[Pickman's model]

i bet everyone who thought roger melly was a made up load of nonsense is rapidly revising their opinions.

 

[Louloubelle]

My martial arts dojo has stopped taking kids. It would cost us £140 to be covered by crb checks (two coaches minimum required for insurance). We don't get paid for teaching, and we've decided not to do it.

My group doesn't train under 18s for exactly the same reason.

 

[SpineyNorman]

My first flat was in a quite posh riverside block in Peterborough (my then girlfriend managed to rent it dirt cheap off her boss, who had just got married and moved in with her husband). At the time Savile was spending a lot of time in Peterborough, he was raising money for a childrens' hospital that was going to be made to look like a castle and would carry his name. It never got built in the end, I'm not 100% sure why though. But when he was in Peterborough he stayed in a flat in the same block as me (there were much, much bigger flats upstairs and I believe his was one of those).

I never saw him there and I didn't hear any rumours about him at the time so this isn't as interesting as maybe it could be but it creeps the fuck out of me thinking about what he might have been doing in his flat while I was at home in my flat in the same block

 

[Pickman's model]

My first flat was in a quite posh riverside block in Peterborough (my then girlfriend managed to rent it dirt cheap off her boss, who had just got married and moved in with her husband). At the time Savile was spending a lot of time in Peterborough, he was raising money for a childrens' hospital that was going to be made to look like a castle and would carry his name. It never got built in the end, I'm not 100% sure why though. But when he was in Peterborough he stayed in a flat in the same block as me (there were much, much bigger flats upstairs and I believe his was one of those).

I never saw him there and I didn't hear any rumours about him at the time so this isn't as interesting as maybe it could be but it creeps the fuck out of me thinking about what he might have been doing in his flat while I was at home in my flat in the same block

he might have been thinking about what you were thinking about in your flat.

 

[SpineyNorman]

he might have been thinking about what you were thinking about in your flat.

I'm not sure the origin of bellybutton fluff and questions relating to whether our lass would kick me out if she caught me smoking a spliff in bed would have been of interest to Jim'll

 

[Louloubelle]

Are they perchance related?

 

[dennisr]

There's something very 'hidden in plain view' about it (for the majority of people who only knew him only from tv/public life). Even without the vague rumours that float around the ether, he was perceived as 'creepy’, ‘odd’ etc. He certainly came across as remarkably unpersonable for someone whose job in effect was to be personable. But then you tell yourself that it’s a wackiness, an oddness that was promoted, exaggerated, taken on; the weird yellow/white hair, the cigar, the gold chains, the tracksuits, the exaggerated mannerisms. That’s what it is. Even though every time you see him on telly and feel a bit repulsed by him during an interview about running a marathon charity of all things it’s just that you don’t like the persona. He’s just an odd bod. Doesn’t make him a bad person. And that the ‘oddness’, the feeling of unease about this weirdo is because he’s a weirdo for those things. You don’t need to look further.

Wasn't he a leading member of the notorious Festival of Light - the 70's anti porn/anti gay movement led by Mary Whitehouse? (sorry if this has been mentioned before - I haved ploughed my way through the thread as yet....)

 

[quimcunx]

No idea. My knowledge of Jimmy Savile prior to his death was Jim'll fix it, top of the pops, marathons for hospitals.

 

[Pickman's model]

Wasn't he a leading member of the notorious Festival of Light - the 70's anti porn/anti gay movement led by Mary Whitehouse? (sorry if this has been mentioned before - I haved ploughed my way through the thread as yet....)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...&q="jimmy savile" "festival of light"&f=false

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Wasn't he a leading member of the notorious Festival of Light - the 70's anti porn/anti gay movement led by Mary Whitehouse? (sorry if this has been mentioned before - I haved ploughed my way through the thread as yet....)

A supporter of Mary Whitehouse ceratinly according to Jenny Diski in her book The Sixties.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice