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the sir jimmy savile obe thread

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existentialist said:
I think you'll find that kind of deliberate misquoting is also considered unacceptable here.
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Ah well ... who knew?
Did you make contact with anyone yet? Regarding the programme etc? You know. .the info you pushed for and insinuated that I was a liar?
I'd consider that to be worse .



existentialist said:
I am sorry, but I cannot tell a lie.

Urban, hard as this is for me to admit, I do have this confession to make. Not only have I, wilfully and with malice aforethought, gone around these boards capitalising, theorising, proselytising and - yes - personalising with gay abandon, but I have, it must be said, been guilty of repeat and flagrant petsonalising. I have tried to stop: for years, I refused to admit that I had a problem, then, having realised that this wasn't just the occasional bit of casual petsonalising from time to time, but a pattern of repeated and unashamed petsonalising, I though I could control it and stop it any time I wanted.

Now I know different. Now my secret is out.

Urban, my name is existentialist and I am a...petsonaliser. There. I've said it. They say the first step is realising you have a problem.
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.. and do you think it's acceptable to make a whole jokey but not funny post up on the basis of a typo and turning it into a piss take of an addiction problem?
 
This doesn't forward the debate but is a fascinating watch. It's the only example I've seen of him facing a hostile public pre-Theroux. The section on Broadmoor is a masterclass in brass-neck and lying.

 
bubblesmcgrath there is a wonderful opportunity here to gain some insight and self-awareness that could be useful for the rest of your life and lead to all sorts of quality stuff.

And you don't even have to concede every point that everyone has made in response to your posts to do so.

Just pick one point/something someone said that you can concede you were wrong about, or misunderstood, dwell on it a bit, then happily admit the fact.

You are allowed to take things the wrong way, or express some kind of emotion about something in a way that seem over the top or wrong to others at the time. But to recognise it later, look at it from a different angle and then attempt to change the mood and the way the discussion continues, that sort of shit makes the original thing worth it in the end. Otherwise its just another seed for bunfights here and I'm not sure what any of us get out of them, other than something to occupy ourselves with until it either peters out or turns into a grudge to carry onto other threads.

Sorry if any of this seems patronising, I'm just bored of the patterns we usually see during internet arguments and fancied spending a few minutes gibbering in a different direction.
 
terryterry said:
Forget the internet arguments, have you seen this? More questions than answers - what else was 'doing the rounds'??!? http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...video-between-underage-boy-well-known-grandee
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Yabbut, what's the story? Jerry Hayes saw a video alleged to show "a Tory grandee" with an underaged boy and concluded ""I knew [the alleged politician] and it looked nothing like him."

Bad, bad Express.

Hayes also observed:

"You saw a lot of grunting but it was all bollocks."
 
What a shit article - it has the title "Ex-Tory MP shown gay sex video between 'underage boy' & 'well-known grandee'" and goes on to quote him saying
But chillingly, he admits: "Many of us watched, as was our duty, grainy footage of some unidentifiable old boy, grunting over what was said to be an underage boy.

"We were told it was a well known grandee. It could have been anyone."

Speaking to Express.co.uk, Mr Hayes said while it was difficult to identify the man in the video, he was sure it was not the senior politician it had been claimed to be.
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So, ex-Tory MP shown video of old man and a possibly underage boy, which definitely wasn't the person he was told it was :rolleyes:
 
terryterry said:
Forget the internet arguments, have you seen this? More questions than answers - what else was 'doing the rounds'??!? http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/488241/Ex-Tory-MP-gay-sex-video-between-underage-boy-well-known-grandee
Click to expand...


"Writing on his website, Mr Hayes debunks a number of myths around the sexual activities of MPs, saying the majority of the rumours swirling around Westminster bars were "fairly flaky" and "nonsense".
"We were told it was a well known grandee. It could have been anyone."
 
FridgeMagnet said:
What a shit article - it has the title "Ex-Tory MP shown gay sex video between 'underage boy' & 'well-known grandee'" and goes on to quote him saying

So, ex-Tory MP shown video of old man and a possibly underage boy, which definitely wasn't the person he was told it was :rolleyes:
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chillingly

who actually still uses that ffs
 
equationgirl said:
bubblesmcgrath are we all bullies now, because we don't agree with your viewpoints or your childish behaviour? You haven't been bullied. You weren't bullied the first time you made that accusation and you haven't been bullied now.

People disagreeing with you aren't bullying you.
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elbows said:
bubblesmcgrath there is a wonderful opportunity here to gain some insight and self-awareness that could be useful for the rest of your life and lead to all sorts of quality stuff.

And you don't even have to concede every point that everyone has made in response to your posts to do so.

Just pick one point/something someone said that you can concede you were wrong about, or misunderstood, dwell on it a bit, then happily admit the fact.

You are allowed to take things the wrong way, or express some kind of emotion about something in a way that seem over the top or wrong to others at the time. But to recognise it later, look at it from a different angle and then attempt to change the mood and the way the discussion continues, that sort of shit makes the original thing worth it in the end. Otherwise its just another seed for bunfights here and I'm not sure what any of us get out of them, other than something to occupy ourselves with until it either peters out or turns into a grudge to carry onto other threads.

Sorry if any of this seems patronising, I'm just bored of the patterns we usually see during internet arguments and fancied spending a few minutes gibbering in a different direction.
Click to expand...


Yes I have tried...but I found the ganging up a bit much considering I had sent existentialist names and contact addresses and he responded by basically shitting on my pm and giving out to me for mentioning my own abuse.... It is getting very annoying being told being told by a group of people how to answer someone's post directed at me.

I expressed an opinion which was just an opinion based on my personal feelings about abuse and was castigated for it.even though it was my abuse. .my feelings. .
..
Your advice on my life or how i should improve it is actually very patronising ... I don't need advice on how to live my life .. it's going very well thank you.

As for conceding that I posted something I should admit was misunderstood. Well I think my post about vanessa feltz was musunderstood. And I think I didn't give enough information about the relationship and sexuality peogramme I mentioned. I only mentioned the three steps prevention and did not elaborate but as it is something given by ed psychs I felt it was not right to name the psych I work with here. It's not freely available material yet but may well be in the future. Although it can be requested by psychs and counsellors..Numbers of posters started implying i was being coy for not giving enough detail. But in fairness I couldn't. I offered to give details and contact names and addresses to anyone who asked me by pm. Nobody asked yet.

As for bullying ... the response by existentialist to my pm in which I gave him all the info he needed to access the "Freedom" programme, was nasty and he subsequently posted here, even after receiving the info, in a way that implied he'd not received what he had asked for...and that he wanted it ON THE THREAD. Excuse the bold type but that's how he wrote his post.

To be frank....you are not privy to the pms. And I feel that if you read all the posts you might see that I was castigated for one post and even though I offered the material requested to people by pm, I was still being called on it after the event.

Regarding bullying. There is a fair bit of ganging up here on people who write posts that in some way don't fit some other posters ideas of a correct post. There's a lot of "calling out" done. In my case I was called out because I asked how people would have reacted if they'd been in Vanessa Feltz shoes. I gave my opinion as to what I would do and existentialist decided I was speaking for the entire population of abused persons.

The only post that I admit was too general was when I said the immediate reaction an abused person feels when abuse starts is that they want it to stop and that they have a fight flight response. In my case a fight response.That was probably from my personal perspective and maybe should not have been written aa a generalisation. However I dont think that my subsequent responses were respected and I honestly feel that existentialist was disrespectful in what he wrote about me personally throughout this thread and in pms. I wish to make it very clear that existentialists pms to me were not of the same mould as presented here. I want you and others reading this to know that. I have reported my own pms and his to the mods. I found his pms extraordinary considering his role and work. To give out to someone for mentioning their own abuse and to tell me I had
chosen to play the abuse card - and to tell me that this was cheap, and predictable, and then to go on to wonder how I avoid my "stuff" getting in the way of my work?
This is not a respectful response to anyone talking about their abuse.

One can only take so much and yes my last three posts have been reactionary to what I perceive as ignorance and lack of respect.

For some reason 've been hassled by equationgirl from day one and told I was another poster since I joined here
This is old now...and yes it is boring.

But I thank you for your post. It was thought provoking.
 
Well for what its worth I'm sorry that I couldn't think of another way to make my point without being patronising.

One of the problems with respect is that areas and points where respect may be bloody well deserved are easily over shadowed by other things that we say, and so the respect is not forthcoming. It is also easy for us to confuse being disrespected, with someone treading on one of our raw nerves. Ultimately we are responsible for coping with our own raw nerves, and devising strategies for shielding them or warning others not to go there in a manner that does not escalate hostilities.
 
elbows said:
Well for what its worth I'm sorry that I couldn't think of another way to make my point without being patronising.

One of the problems with respect is that areas and points where respect may be bloody well deserved are easily over shadowed by other things that we say, and so the respect is not forthcoming. It is also easy for us to confuse being disrespected, with someone treading on one of our raw nerves. Ultimately we are responsible for coping with our own raw nerves, and devising strategies for shielding them or warning others not to go there in a manner that does not escalate hostilities.
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There's no confusion I'm afraid.
Telling me I'm someone else and a sock puppet is not "hitting a raw nerve"...it's just false shit that three posters here persist in trawling out to toss at me.
You tend to know when someone is deliberately twisting the truth. Especially when you've sent them everything they ask for and they then think they have the right to dissectcyour personality in a subsequent post.

The world is made of as many viewpoints as there are persons.
Everyone's experiences are different. What I find disrespectful may be personal to me. Someone calling me a liar is in my mind disrespectful. You may feel differently if someone calls you a liar ... I guess what I'm saying is that by telling someone that they are wrong to react to being called a liar and telling someone they should react in a different way you and some others are setting yourselves up as dictators in a way....dictating what is the best way to respond...or the best way to deal with what you call a raw nerve.

People are different. ..and thank goodness they are. What a shit place this would be if we all decided to only post someone else's opinions, reactions and feelings.
 
1. existentialist is far from the only person who felt you were extrapolating from your own feelings, a view of how abuse victims react - by fighting back - a view that just happens to be one of those myths that surround public opinion of the 'proper victim' that often presents as a barrier to victims seeking proper support, understanding and justice. it is hardly surprising that people reading this found it distasteful. it is surprising that anyone who states they have worked in abuse prevention/damage control/recovery not to be aware of how common this myth is and how damaging and upsetting it can be to those that didn't react by fighting.

2. As much as one person disagreeing with you is not bullying, several people disagreeing with you is not ganging up or bullying or disrespectful.

3. responding to disagreement by making threads all about how you feel about disagreement is tiresome.

4. and if you can't stand having your shit thrown back at you, then don't chuck it at other people in the first place.

5. and stop trying to single out one of the people who disagrees with you for personal condemnation. I don't know why you have chosen to do that, whether it is about deflecting or negating criticism, or just trying to silence her. this is not a new or effective trick. as such, it is also tiresome.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Yes I have tried...but I found the ganging up a bit much considering I had sent existentialist names and contact addresses and he responded by basically shitting on my pm and giving out to me for mentioning my own abuse.... It is getting very annoying being told being told by a group of people how to answer someone's post directed at me.

I expressed an opinion which was just an opinion based on my personal feelings about abuse and was castigated for it.even though it was my abuse. .my feelings. .
..
Your advice on my life or how i should improve it is actually very patronising ... I don't need advice on how to live my life .. it's going very well thank you.

As for conceding that I posted something I should admit was misunderstood. Well I think my post about vanessa feltz was musunderstood. And I think I didn't give enough information about the relationship and sexuality peogramme I mentioned. I only mentioned the three steps prevention and did not elaborate but as it is something given by ed psychs I felt it was not right to name the psych I work with here. It's not freely available material yet but may well be in the future. Although it can be requested by psychs and counsellors..Numbers of posters started implying i was being coy for not giving enough detail. But in fairness I couldn't. I offered to give details and contact names and addresses to anyone who asked me by pm. Nobody asked yet.

As for bullying ... the response by existentialist to my pm in which I gave him all the info he needed to access the "Freedom" programme, was nasty and he subsequently posted here, even after receiving the info, in a way that implied he'd not received what he had asked for...and that he wanted it ON THE THREAD. Excuse the bold type but that's how he wrote his post.

To be frank....you are not privy to the pms. And I feel that if you read all the posts you might see that I was castigated for one post and even though I offered the material requested to people by pm, I was still being called on it after the event.

Regarding bullying. There is a fair bit of ganging up here on people who write posts that in some way don't fit some other posters ideas of a correct post. There's a lot of "calling out" done. In my case I was called out because I asked how people would have reacted if they'd been in Vanessa Feltz shoes. I gave my opinion as to what I would do and existentialist decided I was speaking for the entire population of abused persons.

The only post that I admit was too general was when I said the immediate reaction an abused person feels when abuse starts is that they want it to stop and that they have a fight flight response. In my case a fight response.That was probably from my personal perspective and maybe should not have been written aa a generalisation. However I dont think that my subsequent responses were respected and I honestly feel that existentialist was disrespectful in what he wrote about me personally throughout this thread and in pms. I wish to make it very clear that existentialists pms to me were not of the same mould as presented here. I want you and others reading this to know that. I have reported my own pms and his to the mods. I found his pms extraordinary considering his role and work. To give out to someone for mentioning their own abuse and to tell me I had
chosen to play the abuse card - and to tell me that this was cheap, and predictable, and then to go on to wonder how I avoid my "stuff" getting in the way of my work?
This is not a respectful response to anyone talking about their abuse.

One can only take so much and yes my last three posts have been reactionary to what I perceive as ignorance and lack of respect.

For some reason 've been hassled by equationgirl from day one and told I was another poster since I joined here
This is old now...and yes it is boring.

But I thank you for your post. It was thought provoking.
Click to expand...
You need to report this outrageous behaviour to the mods, so that it can be properly investigated and dealt with.

Given how appalling the behaviour you relate has been, I am at a loss as to how this has not resulted in serious hardcore mod action, assuming it has any basis in fact. And assuming you've actually reported it.
 
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