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the sir jimmy savile obe thread

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toggle said:
1. existentialist is far from the only person who felt you were extrapolating from your own feelings, a view of how abuse victims react - by fighting back - a view that just happens to be one of those myths that surround public opinion of the 'proper victim' that often presents as a barrier to victims seeking proper support, understanding and justice. it is hardly surprising that people reading this found it distasteful. it is surprising that anyone who states they have worked in abuse prevention/damage control/recovery not to be aware of how common this myth is and how damaging and upsetting it can be to those that didn't react by fighting.

2. As much as one person disagreeing with you is not bullying, several people disagreeing with you is not ganging up or bullying or disrespectful.

3. responding to disagreement by making threads all about how you feel about disagreement is tiresome.

4. and if you can't stand having your shit thrown back at you, then don't chuck it at other people in the first place.

5. and stop trying to single out one of the people who disagrees with you for personal condemnation. I don't know why you have chosen to do that, whether it is about deflecting or negating criticism, or just trying to silence her. this is not a new or effective trick. as such, it is also tiresome.
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It's not about disagreement .
Disagreement is not bullying.
Maybe if you read existentialists posts without prejudice you'd see.
 
elbows said:
Well for what its worth I'm sorry that I couldn't think of another way to make my point without being patronising.

One of the problems with respect is that areas and points where respect may be bloody well deserved are easily over shadowed by other things that we say, and so the respect is not forthcoming. It is also easy for us to confuse being disrespected, with someone treading on one of our raw nerves. Ultimately we are responsible for coping with our own raw nerves, and devising strategies for shielding them or warning others not to go there in a manner that does not escalate hostilities.
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Your commas are all over the place, but you're bang on, no one makes you feel anything, your feelings are your responsibility.:cool:
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Especially when you've sent them everything they ask for and they then think they have the right to dissectcyour personality in a subsequent post.
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When any of us post in a way that lingers on the 'its all about me' side of things, we can expect to have our personas probed in response.

I guess what I'm saying is that by telling someone that they are wrong to react to being called a liar and telling someone they should react in a different way you and some others are setting yourselves up as dictators in a way....dictating what is the best way to respond...or the best way to deal with what you call a raw nerve.
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A dictator may demand that someone does something, or face the consequences of the dictator using their power.

Someone pointing out patterns that may lead to someone making an arse of themselves, and strategies for escaping the cycle of arse, is not akin to a dictator. They aren't throwing their great power around, their demands are not magnified by the terror of the dictators disappeared enemies corpse pit. Their existence in a discussion is far more likely to be an outcome itself, rather than resembling a dictator threatening to generate a certain outcome if their advice is not obeyed.
 
elbows said:
When any of us post in a way that lingers on the 'its all about me' side of things, we can expect to have our personas probed in response.



A dictator may demand that someone does something, or face the consequences of the dictator using their power.

Someone pointing out patterns that may lead to someone making an arse of themselves, and strategies for escaping the cycle of arse, is not akin to a dictator. They aren't throwing their great power around, their demands are not magnified by the terror of the dictators disappeared enemies corpse pit. Their existence in a discussion is far more likely to be an outcome itself, rather than resembling a dictator threatening to generate a certain outcome if their advice is not obeyed.
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I'd like to believe that is true here....but you see things would not have escalated if existentialist had acknowledged receipt of the material I'd sent him. If he'd replied and acknowledged that I'd sent him a contact name along with the address of my place of work and the psychologists using the programme. But instead he just proceeded to pretend he'd not received much and demanded that I post them ON THE THREAD.

That was just a cuntish thing to do.

But ..I will not react to it as you say I shouldnt let my feelings about a cunt be known
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
I'd like to believe that is true here....but you see things would not have escalated if existentialist had acknowledged receipt of the material I'd sent him. If he'd replied and acknowledged that I'd sent him a contact name along with the address of my place of work and the psychologists using the programme. But instead he just proceeded to pretend he'd not received much and demanded that I post them ON THE THREAD.

That was just a cuntish thing to do.

But ..I will not react to it as you say I shouldnt let my feelings about a cunt be known
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I'm not going to wade back through the thread to check, but I'll tell you my recollection of how I perceived that stuff.

You had reasons why you couldn't post that info publicly. The people who wanted to know the info had reasons why it was only considered really useful to the discussion, and requested, if it could be said on the thread itself. Thats a stalemate which can lead to understandable frustration on both sides, but the stuff growing out of it now that you are discussing seems to be an escalation beyond a level that a casual observer might think appropriate. And the longer it goes on, the phenomenon is pretty much doomed to get worse.

Of course whatever I say I'll probably just be pouring fuel on the fire because it doesn't sound like you are ready to stop going on about it yet.
 
elbows said:
I'm not going to wade back through the thread to check, but I'll tell you my recollection of how I perceived that stuff.

You had reasons why you couldn't post that info publicly. The people who wanted to know the info had reasons why it was only considered really useful to the discussion, and requested, if it could be said on the thread itself. Thats a stalemate which can lead to understandable frustration on both sides, but the stuff growing out of it now that you are discussing seems to be an escalation beyond a level that a casual observer might think appropriate. And the longer it goes on, the phenomenon is pretty much doomed to get worse.

Of course whatever I say I'll probably just be pouring fuel on the fire because it doesn't sound like you are ready to stop going on about it yet.
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No. There was no stalemate....
I was pretty clear that anyone who wanted the material could pm me. I've mentioned that five times now.
They'd have received the same info I sent existentialist.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
I'd like to believe that is true here....but you see things would not have escalated if existentialist had acknowledged receipt of the material I'd sent him. If he'd replied and acknowledged that I'd sent him a contact name along with the address of my place of work and the psychologists using the programme. But instead he just proceeded to pretend he'd not received much and demanded that I post them ON THE THREAD.

That was just a cuntish thing to do.

But ..I will not react to it as you say I shouldnt let my feelings about a cunt be known
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What I am seeing here, more than anything else, is someone saying "None of this is anything to do with me. I absolve myself of all responsibility, and blame everyone...anyone but me, anyway."

And I am somewhat sick of it, if I'm honest about it. I don't like being called a liar, and I don't like being called a cunt. Especially when I know I have been neither of those things.

So, bubbles, I am going to ask you, once and for all: have you reported my behaviour to the mods, or do you intend to?

Because I, for one, would be extremely glad not to see this important and interesting thread continue to be taken over by your endless moaning and whining about what a bastard I am.

Put up or shut up. You clearly feel I have behaved appallingly, and I presume that, if you do genuinely believe that, you would expect a disinterested third party to see it too. So do yourself a favour, even if you're not doing me one, and present the mods with a catalogue of my misdeeds, and allow them to take matters in hand. Perhaps you might even consider that, should they decide your complaints are unfounded, you could let the matter rest, put me on ignore, and get on with your life.

Whatever, it's way past time you stopped maundering endlessly on about how harsh your suffering at my hands has been, get over yourself, pull your finger out, and give it a bloody rest.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
No. There was no stalemate....
I was pretty clear that anyone who wanted the material could pm me. I've mentioned that five times now.
They'd have received the same info I sent existentialist.
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At best that makes it a stalemate that you went out of your way to break, but by its very nature could not be completely broken to the satisfaction of absolutely everybody.

And in any case my somewhat hazy memory tells me that the gripe started well before the attempts to unjam that stalemate, and that casual observers who might wish to judge the situation might want to take a look at the foundations rather than pay that much attention to what has been constructed on top later to argue about.
 
elbows said:
At best that makes it a stalemate that you went out of your way to break, but by its very nature could not be completely broken to the satisfaction of absolutely everybody.

And in any case my somewhat hazy memory tells me that the gripe started well before the attempts to unjam that stalemate, and that casual observers who might wish to judge the situation might want to take a look at the foundations rather than pay that much attention to what has been constructed on top later to argue about.
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I'd suggest that my post about abuse and prevention training for kids was rounded on. I posted a very short post with no detail. It was ripped apart by existentialist and no amount of me explaining that the prevention programme was actually a much more detailed piece of work, could stop the escalation.
I take the blame for not giving enough info in that post.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
I'd suggest that my post about abuse and prevention training for kids was rounded on. I posted a very short post with no detail. It was ripped apart by existentialist and no amount of me explaining that the prevention programme was actually a much more detailed piece of work, could stop the escalation.
I take the blame for not giving enough info in that post.
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Have you reported my disgraceful behaviour to the mods?

Justice and fair play demands that this egregious and outrageous behaviour be stamped out forthwith. Fifthwith, even.
 
bubblesmcgrath said:
Yes I have tried...but I found the ganging up a bit much considering I had sent existentialist names and contact addresses and he responded by basically shitting on my pm and giving out to me for mentioning my own abuse.... It is getting very annoying being told being told by a group of people how to answer someone's post directed at me.

I expressed an opinion which was just an opinion based on my personal feelings about abuse and was castigated for it.even though it was my abuse. .my feelings. .
..
Your advice on my life or how i should improve it is actually very patronising ... I don't need advice on how to live my life .. it's going very well thank you.

As for conceding that I posted something I should admit was misunderstood. Well I think my post about vanessa feltz was musunderstood. And I think I didn't give enough information about the relationship and sexuality peogramme I mentioned. I only mentioned the three steps prevention and did not elaborate but as it is something given by ed psychs I felt it was not right to name the psych I work with here. It's not freely available material yet but may well be in the future. Although it can be requested by psychs and counsellors..Numbers of posters started implying i was being coy for not giving enough detail. But in fairness I couldn't. I offered to give details and contact names and addresses to anyone who asked me by pm. Nobody asked yet.

As for bullying ... the response by existentialist to my pm in which I gave him all the info he needed to access the "Freedom" programme, was nasty and he subsequently posted here, even after receiving the info, in a way that implied he'd not received what he had asked for...and that he wanted it ON THE THREAD. Excuse the bold type but that's how he wrote his post.

To be frank....you are not privy to the pms. And I feel that if you read all the posts you might see that I was castigated for one post and even though I offered the material requested to people by pm, I was still being called on it after the event.

Regarding bullying. There is a fair bit of ganging up here on people who write posts that in some way don't fit some other posters ideas of a correct post. There's a lot of "calling out" done. In my case I was called out because I asked how people would have reacted if they'd been in Vanessa Feltz shoes. I gave my opinion as to what I would do and existentialist decided I was speaking for the entire population of abused persons.

The only post that I admit was too general was when I said the immediate reaction an abused person feels when abuse starts is that they want it to stop and that they have a fight flight response. In my case a fight response.That was probably from my personal perspective and maybe should not have been written aa a generalisation. However I dont think that my subsequent responses were respected and I honestly feel that existentialist was disrespectful in what he wrote about me personally throughout this thread and in pms. I wish to make it very clear that existentialists pms to me were not of the same mould as presented here. I want you and others reading this to know that. I have reported my own pms and his to the mods. I found his pms extraordinary considering his role and work. To give out to someone for mentioning their own abuse and to tell me I had
chosen to play the abuse card - and to tell me that this was cheap, and predictable, and then to go on to wonder how I avoid my "stuff" getting in the way of my work?
This is not a respectful response to anyone talking about their abuse.

One can only take so much and yes my last three posts have been reactionary to what I perceive as ignorance and lack of respect.

For some reason I've been hassled by equationgirl from day one and told I was another poster since I joined here
This is old now...and yes it is boring.

But I thank you for your post. It was thought provoking.
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I would like to point to others that that I have disagreed with you from some of your earliest postings. This is because you largely talked in generalisations about women and feminism, and I disagreed with your views. That isn't hassling you, that's disagreeing with you.

However, this is the first time you've accused me of hassling you. Which posts did I do that in, please? And have you reported these posts to the mods for my behaviour?
 
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