the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[Spymaster]

You'd think there would be some sort of controls around that.

There are. Huge ones. This sounds like either bollocks or embellishment.

I've been through Broadmoor several times (used to play cricket against the inmates once a year in the 80s).

There's massive security all the way through, electronic gates in all the corridors where you get locked into holding areas and the front gates don't open until the back ones have locked, other internal gates that are manned etc, etc,.

Certainly not somewhere that a person could "have the keys to".

Broadmoor's always been very secure. The odd escapes that happened in the 70s and 80s were invariably someone doing a runner whilst on an outside visit of some sort.

 

[Louloubelle]

Allegations that JS repeatedly raped a Broadmoor patient
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/11/jimmy-savile-broadmoor-abuse-allegations

eta

Stanley, who has more than 30 years experience in nursing, said the woman made the allegations in the early 1980s, shortly after she was transferred from Broadmoor to another psychiatric hospital in the south of England. Stanley said she had been very distressed by the woman's account, which she found entirely credible, and had reported it at the time to her superiors and to police officers involved in the patient's supervision, but no further action had been taken. The Guardian is not naming the hospital to protect the patient's identity.

not clear whether the hospital was Broadmoor or a different hospital, I think the report is saying that the rapes / sexual assaults occurred at Broadmoor but that the victim reported then to a nurse at another hospital

 

[sleaterkinney]

There are. Huge ones. This sounds like either bollocks or embellishment.

I've been through Broadmoor several times (used to play cricket against the inmates once a year in the 80s).

There's massive security all the way through, electronic gates in all the corridors where you get locked into holding areas and the front gates don't open until the back ones have locked, other internal gates that are manned etc, etc,.

Certainly not somewhere that a person could "have the keys to".

Broadmoor's always been very secure. The odd escapes that happened in the 70s and 80s were invariably someone doing a runner whilst on an outside visit of some sort.

It's in the Guardian

Savile, who died in October last year, worked at Broadmoor as a volunteer for almost four decades, describing himself as the "honorary assistant entertainments officer". He had an office and living quarters at the hospital, and was given a personal set of keys to the wards, West London Mental Health Trust, which now runs the hospital, confirmed on Thursday.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/11/jimmy-savile-broadmoor-abuse-allegations?CMP=twt_fd

 

[cesare]

There are. Huge ones. This sounds like either bollocks or embellishment.

I've been through Broadmoor several times (used to play cricket against the inmates once a year in the 80s).

There's massive security all the way through, electronic gates in all the corridors where you get locked into holding areas and the front gates don't open until the back ones have locked, other internal gates that are manned etc, etc,.

Certainly not somewhere that a person could "have the keys to".

Broadmoor's always been very secure. The odd escapes that happened in the 70s and 80s were invariably someone doing a runner whilst on an outside visit of some sort.

Scotland Yard is collating information from at least half a dozen police forces but said it had no official reports of abuses at Broadmoor. Last night the hospital admitted giving Savile a set of keys but insisted: “Broadmoor is a secure hospital and the idea of ‘free run’ does not apply.
“Jimmy Savile had keys because of his role as a volunteer at Broadmoor. If we are contacted by the police we will of course co-operate with any investigation"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4583344/Paedophile-Jimmy-Saviles-Broadmoor-sex-attack.html

 

[Pickman's model]

There are. Huge ones. This sounds like either bollocks or embellishment.

I've been through Broadmoor several times (used to play cricket against the inmates once a year in the 80s).

There's massive security all the way through, electronic gates in all the corridors where you get locked into holding areas and the front gates don't open until the back ones have locked, other internal gates that are manned etc, etc,.

Certainly not somewhere that a person could "have the keys to".

Broadmoor's always been very secure. The odd escapes that happened in the 70s and 80s were invariably someone doing a runner whilst on an outside visit of some sort.

would you like some ketchup with your words?

 

[Spymaster]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4583344/Paedophile-Jimmy-Saviles-Broadmoor-sex-attack.html

I've seen that and the Guardian piece.

My point is that it's being reported like he "had the keys" to the whole gaff i.e. some kind of security risk, that he could come and go as he pleased and the place just isn't like that. My guess is that any keys that he'd have had would just have been for access to areas that he worked in. He didn't "have the keys to Broadmoor"!

 

[cesare]

Living quarters and the keys to the wards are certainly more than I'd expect from a high security mental hospital.

 

[Louloubelle]

Separately another former Broadmoor patient, a young girl at the time but now living as a man following a sex-change operation, said that Savile had reached under his nightie and groped his breasts while he was watching TV with other young girls. Steven George, at the time a 17-year-old girl called Alison Pink, told the Sun: "It's staggering to think Savile was given the run of Broadmoor … He could access any of the girls' bedrooms."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/11/jimmy-savile-broadmoor-abuse-allegations

 

[Louloubelle]

I was talking to 2 elderly ladies *in their 60s) today and they claimed that they had read about an expose of JS's abuses against children in a newspaper in the 1960s. Something to do with him abusing a load of kids in a caravan.

It would be interesting to know if their memories in this respect were true.

 

[Plumdaff]

Staff at a secure hospital would be expected to sign their keys in and out and would not be allowed to take their set off the premises. They go into complete lock down if anyone ever forgets. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point, but it would be very irregular if he got to keep a set all the time.

 

[Spymaster]

Living quarters and the keys to the wards are certainly more than I'd expect from a high security mental hospital.

Well with hindsight yes, but they didn't know about his noncery then did they? There'd probably be loads of people that had keys for areas they worked in when they were there.

 

[Louloubelle]

Retired detective alleges Thames Valley Police ignored complaints re Stoke Mandeville abuses in the 1980s

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-19915955

 

[twentythreedom]

He's buried at 45deg so he can see the sea.... yeah right. There must be some other reason that's to do with him still noncing, just can't think of it atm.

 

[trashpony]

When I read some of this stuff, it's like the whole of the UK was collectively hypnotised. Massive breaches of protocol and systems solely on the basis that he was Jimmy Savile.

 

[Louloubelle]

Well with hindsight yes, but they didn't know about his noncery then did they? There'd probably be loads of people that had keys for areas they worked in when they were there.

One alleged victims stated that JS keys enabled him to access the girls' bedrooms.

A nurse who dealt with an alleged Broadmoor victim stated that she told her that JS raped her repeatedly over an extended period and only stopped when he found a new girl to abuse.

If these claims are true then the staff had to know about it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well with hindsight yes, but they didn't know about his noncery then did they? There'd probably be loads of people that had keys for areas they worked in when they were there.

If sir jimmy savile obe kcsg had keys to his own living quarters and the wards he wouldn't need keys to the stationery cupboard or the staff bar, would he? If he had the keys for the areas that suited his purposes - and it seems he had - why would he need to gild the lily with keys to the coal bunker and a postern gate?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I think in regards to Broadmoor we can take it to be a turn of phrase rather than a literal truth. Irresponsible of the papers to give that impression, but that's... well, a longer battle that won't be won here, I suspect.

 

[Espresso]

It's been widely reported that Jimmy Savile considered himself completely above the law and that he could do whatever he liked, to whomever he liked, whenever he liked as the whim took him. With no repercussions for him whatsoever.

With every new disgusting and depraved story that comes out it's pretty obvious he wasn't remotely arrogant.
He was simply stating an indisputable, stone cold fact.
That's what's so terrifying.

He was obviously an immensely intelligent man, to be able to control not only every single one of his numerous victims - that is probably the easier to explain - but also other people, ordinary people who were workers in the various places he preyed, bosses in those places, the police, the organised criminals who were supposed to be in charge of every bloody manor in London in those days, etc etc.
Whatever he knew about some very serious people high up in positions of power must have been pure fucking dynamite, for him never to have been charged with any bloody thing at all, ever. Ever.

 

[Idris2002]

Whatever he knew about some very serious people high up in positions of power must have been pure fucking dynamite, for him never to have been charged with any bloody thing at all, ever. Ever.

He may well have had the goods on various people in high places, but I suspect the more mundane explanation is that those people simply weren't bothered by the possibility or reality of what he was doing.

 

[Spymaster]

I think in regards to Broadmoor we can take it to be a turn of phrase rather than a literal truth. Irresponsible of the papers to give that impression, but that's... well, a longer battle that won't be won here, I suspect.

It's this "having the run of Broadmoor" business that's a lot of shit.

 

[8115]

It's a widely accepted fact that the more people know about something, the less likely they are individually to act, as responsibility is shared. It's in the book I'm reading at the moment, there have been examples of people being killed on a busy street and nobody stopped to help. Everyone likes to think they would do something but maybe the fact that people did know, and knew each other knew, may have made it less likely that someone would do something. Like I said, obviously everyone thinks they would do something but it's not always that easy.

 

[twentythreedom]

Has there been any trouble at his grave? There's bound to be people doing some daft shit. Wouldn't be surprised if he got dug up and moved tbh.

 

[Idris2002]

It's a widely accepted fact that the more people know about something, the less likely they are individually to act, as responsibility is shared. It's in the book I'm reading at the moment, there have been examples of people being killed on a busy street and nobody stopped to help. Everyone likes to think they would do something but maybe the fact that people did know, and knew each other knew, may have made it less likely that someone would do something. Like I said, obviously everyone thinks they would do something but it's not always that easy.

They call it the bystander effect, I think.

 

[Spymaster]

Has there been any trouble at his grave? There's bound to be people doing some daft shit. Wouldn't be surprised if he got dug up and moved tbh.

Being discussed on the other thread.

 

[Louloubelle]

It's a widely accepted fact that the more people know about something, the less likely they are individually to act, as responsibility is shared. It's in the book I'm reading at the moment, there have been examples of people being killed on a busy street and nobody stopped to help. Everyone likes to think they would do something but maybe the fact that people did know, and knew each other knew, may have made it less likely that someone would do something. Like I said, obviously everyone thinks they would do something but it's not always that easy.

Yup

The bystander effect

 

[DotCommunist]

He's buried at 45deg so he can see the sea.... yeah right. There must be some other reason that's to do with him still noncing, just can't think of it atm.

its so he can stilllook at the kids on the beach obvs

 

[where to]

I was talking to 2 elderly ladies *in their 60s) today and they claimed that they had read about an expose of JS's abuses against children in a newspaper in the 1960s. Something to do with him abusing a load of kids in a caravan.

It would be interesting to know if their memories in this respect were true.

That would change the way this is being looked at completely, if correct.

 

[Louloubelle]

That would change the way this is being looked at completely, if correct.

I asked them if they remembered the name of the newspaper but they said that they couldn't remember.
Memory is a funny thing. It is also possible that they might have imagined it in the light of the current news stories.

Someone posted this link on another thread but it's relevant here too I think
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010612065657.htm

 

[trashpony]

Isn't there also some kind of psychological phenomenon where if people see something that is completely bizarre/shocking, they literally don't believe their eyes?

I think there was something like that going on too. It's the same reason that abuse happens so often in families - other family members aren't just turning a 'blind eye', it's too much for their conscious brain to deal with so they just switch off the knowledge

 

[8115]

Isn't there also some kind of psychological phenomenon where if people see something that is completely bizarre/shocking, they literally don't believe their eyes?

I think there was something like that going on too. It's the same reason that abuse happens so often in families - other family members aren't just turning a 'blind eye', it's too much for their conscious brain to deal with so they just switch off the knowledge

Yeah. Cognitive dissonance? (Not sure it's exactly that).

I mean, this is all speculation, I wouldn't bet on it obviously.