DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Well, why not just make guesses or pick up a copy of the Record?
The Scottish independence referendum polling thread
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
Well, why not just make guesses or pick up a copy of the Record?
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Not really, it is likely that it was more no, but I was thinking people from Scotland who have moved, and also plural voting. It is pretty easy to get your name on the electoral roll. People from other countries I have spoken to are surprised about that. Doubt it made a difference in the end.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's what english people who are posh do.
Note: btw: scotland is 45% working class and 55% working class. That's it. Odd country.
So you accept you were wrong? FairPlay.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You lying bastard, you meant no voters - and by no voters you meant not real scots.
Whose talking about General elections?
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Did I? What the fuck? This is just rehashed bullshit from the press. I am not saying a majority of Scots voted for independence. I just don't have a problem with looking at the UK in terms of national interests. That's not to say, Scots feel the national interest of Scotland is not within the UK. I just don't see it that way.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Do any of your posts ever relate to the ones you're supposed to be replying to? Is everyone else just rehashed bullshit from the press? Wtf are you even on about?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
actually, from the polling data that statement would look to be wrong. That has the vote among those born in Scotland at being evenly split for those voting in person, and 49/51% split for those voting by post.
The vote among the none Scottish UK born was 3:1 against, and 3:2 against for those born outside the UK.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
This bullshit about thinking real Scots vote yes.
http://www.scotsman.com/scottish-independence/john-reid-patriotism-claims-are-insulting/
Labour made this 'point' again and again. Its bullshit when they spout it, and bullshit when you spout it.
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DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Aye, but that was on a poll that was favourable to yes. The non-Scots born population is close to 10%-15%, so it was closer among the Scots born, but No may have still carried it. Still, I reckon it is more an income/wealth/age thing. Most rUK migrants are not kitchen porters from Liverpool.
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free spirit
more tea vicar?
22% according to the weighting data at the end of that polling report.
Yes that polling data does show the scots born voters narrowly voted against independence, but only by 49% to 51%.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
2011 Census had 83% of population born in Scotland. Maybe it is higher for voting age.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I suppose that the children of none scottish born residents would themselves mostly be scottish born, which might account for the difference.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh god, don't play the game.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
How about those born outside the UK? And maybe you could do better than 'I reckon'. You've been doing a lot of reckoning on this thread and much of it has been wrong.
Sorry not sure how that answers the point you quoted unless you feel you can't belong to a country unless born there
free spirit
more tea vicar?
would the majority of english born residents in scotland self identify as English or Scottish?
Most people identify themselves as being from where they were born and/or brought up, not where they happen to be living. Try telling a Scot in London that they're no longer actually scottish because they now live in London.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
We're looking at vote not ID here.
(and how one nation been done wrong by another - nationalism we used to call it on the left)
Not sure it's my or your place to decide what peoples nationality should be
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well, this is one of the reasons why basing your politics on nationalism is such a non-starter. I'm Welsh. But I haven't lived in Wales for more than two decades. I've lived in England for most of that time. I still think of myself as Welsh, because as you say, that's where I was born and grew up. But in terms of involving myself in politics, where I live now is where matters. Whether or not a person is 'Scottish' is irrelevant. If they live in a place, that is the place where their voice deserves, and should demand, to be heard wrt the place's politics.
The talk of 'what it means to be a true Scot' that came from both sides during debates leading up to the referendum stank. It really fucking stank. We were back to Norman fucking Tebbitt and his moronic 'cricket test'.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
it was a referendum of scottish residents, not scottish people. Lots of scots weren't eligible to vote due to living outside scotland, lots of english and other nationalities were eligible to vote due to living in scotland, nowt wrong with that, but it gets a bit confusing if you then refer to everyone in scotland as being scottish people.
Now maybe I misunderstood your post, as I thought you had specifically chosen to refer to the scottish people and how they voted, and the term scottish people has a pretty common understanding as being actual scottish born / bred people.
eg from wiki
Humberto
Callooh! Callay!
A nation being wronged deserved attention unless I have misunderstood.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I wasn't basing my politics on nationalism, just attempting some level of accuracy in what's being discussed.
maybe it's just the geographer / statistician in me, but when certain terms have certain specific understood meanings, then others start using them to mean something different it gets a bit confusing to attempt a rational discussion of the subject.
Nationality was clearly a significant factor in how people voted though, a 51/49 split vs a 74:26 split is a statistically significant difference between the Scottish born and rUk born voters.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
One further point on nationality - those who're born in a country are automatically entitled to citizenship and passport from that country, those who have parents from other countries may also claim dual citizenship with their parents country, but those who have both parents also born in the same country as them would only ever be legally entitled to citizenship and passport from that country alone (although other countries could choose to grant them naturalised citizenship).
so everyone who was born in scotland would have been legally entitled to a scottish passport if it had declared independence, whereas those from elsewhere who just happened to live in scotland may or may not have been allowed to be given a scottish passport at the discretion of the scottish government, if they wanted one/
Being entitled to a scottish passport as a birth right would be a good definition of being a scottish person, as opposed to someone who wouldn't be automatically entitled to that passport (if there actually had been a scottish passport).
So there is a specific internationally agreed legal basis on which to determine nationality, which was the convention I was assuming would be being used when discussing the issue and referring to 'scottish people'. So if it's not mine or your place to decide this, let's just use international convention rather than unilaterally deciding that convention doesn't apply here for some reason.
Hopefully that's cleared that one up.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And that's where you lose me. You had a go at LBJ on another thread for saying that you were making a nationalist argument not a socialist one but he's right. Now that's fine, if you believe in the Nationalist argument by all means make it but don't pretend it's something it's not.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
That would include people born outside Scotland. It is the 2011 census results. The 22% would be those of voting age, you don't realise that because you have not thought about the types of people that migrate, but want to insult me.
DairyQueen
Well-Known Member
Understanding the concept of national interests does not make someone a nationalist.
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