I wish the likes of Marr, Snow, Coburn, etc would persist with finding out with finding out what the social care plan Johnson announced he had in 2019 is or was.
The New Tories - Ruthlessly Incompetent. Post Examples of Tory Stupidity Here
- Thread starter Kaka Tim
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Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Letting everyone in care homes die due to a pandemic?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Yes, taxes need to rise to fund care.
No, it shouldn't ne an increase in NICO.
Yes, it should be a rise in income tax rates.
As it stands, I pay income tax, but not NI, and raising NICO hits youngsters on low wages hardest.
Make the wrinklies pay a wee bit more.
No, it shouldn't ne an increase in NICO.
Yes, it should be a rise in income tax rates.
As it stands, I pay income tax, but not NI, and raising NICO hits youngsters on low wages hardest.
Make the wrinklies pay a wee bit more.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
I think that is exactly it.
The Tories will be sitting back, and trying to figure out what the feck to do now. The plan was to hike NI. It's been exposed that that taxes workers, and not investment income.
It's not about not taxing older people, it's about not taxing the rich.
I can't see it in the manifesto, but I swear I heard Johnson say during the election that they had a plan for social care. Turns out they don't. What a surprise.
And the bleating about elderly people not having to sell their house to pay for care, is just about help middle classes inherit money.
They'll end up raising NI.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
At the time of the last manifesto, Covid was understandably not factored. To hold any party to their manifesto pledges at the moment is ludicrous.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
This isn't about covid. This is about who pays for social care for the elderly.
Working people, just about getting by, or rich people, with investment income.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Well, you've seen my view. Not NI, income tax.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
yes and no.
i agree there's a debate about the right level of inheritance tax (and the fucked-ness of the housing market that makes inheritance about the only way that future generations are going to be able to afford to own a home rather than making private landlords even richer.)
and the very richest will pay lawyers / accountants to come up with a way of avoiding it that isn't really open to the working class owner of a bog standard house that they bought years ago but has become worth a ludicrous amount because of politicians wanting to keep the property bubble inflated...
but as things stand now, if someone develops a condition that requires what's considered 'medical care' then the state pays for that and any 'estate' is not touched. likewise if someone dies suddenly without needing care. if they develop a condition that requires what's considered 'social care' then it doesn't and the estate is effectively taken away to pay for that.
it does not seem right that it comes down to chance of what condition someone develops what the effective rate of inheritance tax is.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I get that. To be clear, I've inherited nothing.
My grandparents spent every penny they had on social care when they got old. As in their houses got sold to pay for care.
I don't resent that. I'm glad they spent their latter years in reasonable comfort.
Inheritance tax planning only ever benefits the very rich - the "not having to sell the family home" stuff is piss poor politicking, frankly, compared to what the majority of people experience.
It is all about the middle class getting a head start on the property ladder.
And the Tories can't risk losing that lump of the electorate
Ring of Steel?
You and your 'party' are heartless cunts
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
£18.2bn / year.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
To be fair to Johnson, he announced almost immediately after winning the election that there never was a plan and there wasn't going to be one until someone else was prime minister.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I think this is largely because the issue of (partly) state funded adult social care is one that exposes the tory party riven in two by, OTOH it's ideology that says leave alone and let the market sort and their electoral strategy that needs to address the concerns of their (voting) aged, wealthy traditional base.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
But that base will be only too delighted to see young working folk saddled with increased NI payments, which is why I don't get the talk of a tory split on this issue.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It'll certainly be interesting to see which way Johnson jumps on this; it might give an indication of quite how 'sticky' they think their red wall support is.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Because tax and spend is political anathema to a significant wing of their party. I think on this there is a need to separate the two issues. There is the unfairness and essentially regressive method proposed to raise the money and there is the political decision to use direct taxation to fund a spending proposal. You are right that many Tories will not be concerned about the first - although they should be given their current electoral base - but the latter looks 'like socialism' as a Tory MP anonymously claimed in the press this morning.
Loose meat
Well-Known Member
I think this used to be right. There is an excel spreadsheet available on the Lambeth website that says, in Coldharbour Ward, the average property price during the 10-year period of peak Auterity increased by 130%.
The aveage was £350K, after ten years of austerity the average was £780K. That was three years ago. Values went up another 12% in the past 12 months.
It's not about class anymore. Property ownership is wider than that - that amount of money encourages anyone to plan for inheritance tax.
Property ownership is itself life-changing.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Fuck off you rancid cunt. (I thought I had told you this before.)
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
It mustn't happen. Raise income tax, not NI.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Huge amount of private new build within a few miles of us. By huge, well, Winchburgh development is 3,500 houses, Wester Inch 2000.
If you go for a drive somewhere you haven't been for a while... new build, and lots of it.
I'm very puzzled as to where the money to buy them is coming from.
not-bono-ever
meh
Heaven 17 last night
Fascist groove thing
Fascist groove thing
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I can tell you where it's not coming from, and that's young people in caring professions who can afford to buy homes.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'd expect any manifesto pledge to be resilient enough to withstand eg another financial crash. surely these pledges aren't meant to only be understood on the basis of 'if nothing goes wrong'.
ruffneck23
front left
It's all rumours but would be nice to see her brought down a peg or 100, but then Gove shudders
not-bono-ever
meh
Money is virtually free to borrow
ruffneck23
front left
I think this post does more to support Badgers post than yours, you could at least try to be better.
There’s too much focus on property as an asset class in these kind of discussions. What you describe is also true for equities, which also doubled in value in the ten years post-crash. This is still a question of established wealth in all its forms versus a lack of the same
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Tax the rich. Eat the Tories.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Yes, you are right, I was in a bit of a hurry, otherwise I would have come up with a new epithet. I shall try harder next time.
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