The Michael Gove File

[_angel_]

Because if they can pay them a shit salary and make it compulsory for a year, then it saves money....

Anyway, only what I reckon they're working toward, I hope im wrong.

I think that'd be way more expensive than funding willing part timers.

eta: never mind political suicide

 

[chilango]

I visited one school where "elevenses" are served to the teachers, and another where they get "high tea".

That's the world that Gove etc. come from.

 

[spanglechick]

I once did supply at a private school which had free toast in the staff room every morning. Just a few toasters, some thick sliced bread, butter not an enormous expense. Et voila: Happy teachers.

 

[Orang Utan]

Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home ( ), so they are quite popular.

 

[sim667]

even free tea and coffee would do it.

They want to start charging staff for printing at my college

 

[Orang Utan]

I once did supply at a private school which had free toast in the staff room every morning. Just a few toasters, some thick sliced bread, butter not an enormous expense. Et voila: Happy teachers.

We have free toast, marge and jam.

 

[spanglechick]

We have free toast, marge and jam.

I hate you.

 

[brogdale]

I visited one school where "elevenses" are served to the teachers, and another where they get "high tea".

That's the world that Gove etc. come from.

Oh yes, indeed. During my PGCE our tutor managed to get our group on a day-trip down to Winchester; bit of an eye-opener I can say.

Sherry with the head, lunch at 'high table' (served by flunkys) and surrounded by 'characters' that looked as though they'd just walked out of "All gas and gaiters". One old guy told me (seriously with a straight face) that school took pupils from a broad section of society adding "we even take boys from the middle classes now".

Food was excellent.

 

[Orang Utan]

I hate you.

Come and work with me. I'll bump off the HoD. He's an awful bore.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As they're reducing the amounts of people in the forces, and supposedly (failing at) increasing the reserves, this kind of talk is just basically saying "we aim to recruit direct from school into the army reserves"

5 years til compulsory spells in the army for all I reckon

Never happen. Too expensive, and lowers the standard of readiness of the frontline services.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That wouldn't make sense because they'd have to pay em fulltime AND the army would hate it. Why sack someone who wants to be there fulltime and replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there and still needs paying. Doesn't make sense.

From what my dad told me, National Service did not give conscripts the same basic wage as regulars/enlistees. They'd basically pay them "dole and all found".

 

[Orang Utan]

http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeopl

e/youngpeople/militaryethos
Here is a cunning plan.

Just read this. It looks like satire.
Jesusfuck.
Troops To Teachers: place a shellshocked squaddy, who has been drilled into dehumanising the enemy, into a place where people often exhibit challenging behaviour. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Pickman's model]

Just read this. It looks like satire.
Jesusfuck.
Troops To Teachers: place a shellshocked squaddy, who has been drilled into dehumanising the enemy, into a place where people often exhibit challenging behaviour. What could possibly go wrong?

let's look back at e.g. the 1920s and 1940s, 1950s and see.

incidentally, it is anachronistic to call the phenomenon 'shell shock'. it's ptsd, as well you know. btw what sort of challenging behaviour do you exhibit which you think a "shellshocked veteran" could take umbrage at?

 

[Orang Utan]

<feels something toothless gumming at his coat>

 

[Pickman's model]

<feels something toothless gumming at his coat>

if you are going to try for a put-down at least make it one which has teeth.

 

[catinthehat]

Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home ( ), so they are quite popular.

We once had the army in with this massive rocket launcher thing right next to where the staff and student nursery is. I got furious and though I am going to have a word about that after my class - came out of my class to see the kids from the nursery being lined up and sat on the thing (like Cher in that video). I went to the Principals office and filled it with expletives and a bit of emotive reasoning (it was something along the lines of those bastard things are blowing up kids that age in Iraq and you are allowing the thing to be used as a photo op for kids here - and some more swears in between). We still get the recruiters but never had the military equipment again. The recruiters target areas of economic deprivation - there are some colleges in Glasgow where they are almost permanent residents.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home ( ), so they are quite popular.

you do know what refrain means, right? of course you can refrain from encouraging students to do anything. there is no need for you to be subtle about refraining from encouraging them to enter the profession of arms - though, as you're refraining from it they may not notice what you're up to.

 

[JTG]

The recruiters target areas of economic deprivation - there are some colleges in Glasgow where they are almost permanent residents.

Saw them at St Pauls Carnival last year. Made me cross. And sad.

 

[Orang Utan]

you do know what refrain means, right? of course you can refrain from encouraging students to do anything. there is no need for you to be subtle about refraining from encouraging them to enter the profession of arms - though, as you're refraining from it they may not notice what you're up to.

Sodden it is

 

[Pickman's model]

Sodden it is

grand

 

[existentialist]

Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home ( ), so they are quite popular.

Quite a lot of the schools in this county have visits from Forces recruiting teams. But then, the job situation in this little corner of heaven is such that the phrase "economic conscription" could have been coined for here, so you can hardly blame them for bowing to the inevitable.

 

[rioted]

let's look back at e.g. the 1920s and 1940s, 1950s and see.

incidentally, it is anachronistic to call the phenomenon 'shell shock'. it's ptsd, as well you know. btw what sort of challenging behaviour do you exhibit which you think a "shellshocked veteran" could take umbrage at?

In the 50s and 60s I was beaten many times by ex-forces "teachers". It wasn't unusual for the PE staff to get a lad in the boxing ring with them. Never get away with it nowadays.

 

[nino_savatte]

Is Gove still going on about how he wants hardened Helmand veterans in the classroom?

 

[existentialist]

Is Gove still going on about how he wants hardened Helmand veterans in the classroom?

I don't know the date of the link that was posted, but it's two way traffic - soldiers into classrooms, and kids into military cadets.

In moderation, I don't think the idea is totally out of order. When it's being proposed by a nutjob stary-eyed loon to the right of Genghis Khan, it scares the shit out of me.

I've worked with ex-soldiers, and quite a few of them were great characters, very interesting, and very good at communicating things, in a "this is the naughty end. We do not point this end at people we like, do we, boys?" kind of way.

But would I want them responsible for the emotional and pastoral well-being of my kids?

Hmm, not really.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't know the date of the link that was posted, but it's two way traffic - soldiers into classrooms, and kids into military cadets.

In moderation, I don't think the idea is totally out of order. When it's being proposed by a nutjob stary-eyed loon to the right of Genghis Khan, it scares the shit out of me.

I've worked with ex-soldiers, and quite a few of them were great characters, very interesting, and very good at communicating things, in a "this is the naughty end. We do not point this end at people we like, do we, boys?" kind of way.

But would I want them responsible for the emotional and pastoral well-being of my kids?

Hmm, not really.

There is an assumption that because soldiers have been through military training and are used to order, they are better placed that someone from a suburb to be a teacher. I think it's a dangerous and foolhardy assumption to make. There are decent ex-squaddies out there but it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.

 

[existentialist]

There is an assumption that because soldiers have been through military training and are used to order, they are better placed that someone from a suburb to be a teacher. I think it's a dangerous and foolhardy assumption to make. There are decent ex-squaddies out there but it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.

I think the main cause of it is this warm-fields-of-the-past fetishisation of a certain kind of discipline. The "reasoning" goes - kids need discipline, teachers struggle to enforce it, therefore we need much tougher people to do it, let's make soldiers into teachers.

I'd actually argue that, while discipline is an important part of young people's learning, we're often barking up the wrong tree completely when we assume that the only kind of discipline is the authoritarian barking-orders variety. What children really need to learn is not just to respect others, but how to do so. Too often, we seem to only want to go for the easy answers - we tell them to "work harder", "obey", "show respect", and in the face of their ignorance as to how to actually achieve this things (because we sure as hell aren't demonstrating them to them), we just shout louder and more insistently. There would be a delicious irony at the idea of a teacher publicly and loudly humiliating a student in a public corridor for failing to show respect, if it wasn't for the fact that the irony will be utterly lost on the teacher doing the shouting.

And all that will happen if we pack schools with soldiers is that the shouting will be louder.

 

[chilango]

... it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.

Indeed.

Although independent schools, especially of the variety remembered fondly by Gove et al, are already packed full of ex-military teachers.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Here's a snippet from Pearson's article


Fucking hilarious, just like his recent tweets.



A bit like your article then.

This joker wasn't even born until after the Falklands war. I'm old enough at elast to remember the Sun's grotesque GOTCHA! headline in response to the Belgrano sinking.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I had my lunch break at 4 today. It was probably less than ten minutes. Four and a half minutes to heat it up and then however long it took to eat it.
This is not unusual in a school. I get less time than teachers actually cos at least they have 'time' at lunchtime unless they are on duty. Though I doubt any of them take a whole half hour to rest/relax or whatever you are suppose to do in a break. There is always something or someone that needs attention.

I couldn't function like that. At all. God knows how you do!

 

[nino_savatte]

Indeed.

Although independent schools, especially of the variety remembered fondly by Gove et al, are already packed full of ex-military teachers.

That probably explains the regime of bullying (an unofficial form of control) in those schools.