The DNC "hack" was a leak from within the US and not Russia.
- Thread starter mikey mikey
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mikey mikey
Active Member
You forgot "accuse them of being reptilian shapeshifters when they are obviously reptilian shapeshifters".
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Explain please.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
With regard to the rape charges, I agree wholeheartedly. However, he has done a great service in releasing information into the public domain, which we wouldn't otherwise know.
American politics and establishment seems to be absolutely rotten to the core.
I was remarking to a work colleague the other day, that for the last couple of months of the campaign, virtually every day there was another allegation about Trump's behaviour, yet the US public favoured him over Clinton. Had the Democrats put anyone else up against Trump, I feel that they would have won. It's a sad day when Clinton is so reviled that Trump won.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
As has been reportededy widely Russians hacked and did not release the information on the RNC. This isn't some laudable truth dump it's Partsian politics and worrying for anyone
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I am talking about the information released way before the election.
Is all politics not partisan?
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The widely reported in this sentence is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Think the point being that if the intelligence services of a foreign country obtained potentially damning information about both main political parties of another nation, but chose to release information on only one party, one might conclude they were hoping to sway an election towards one party over the other.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The dastards!!
That tears it.
That tears it.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
The Russians (ATP28/29) hacked everybody even vaguely significant politically and economically, that's what they (and their US, UK, Israeli, Chinese etc equivalents do)
If everyone is expected to have it, then anyone could have leaked it.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
There's partisan and then there's a foreign govt selective releasing information for the benefit of one candidate and to harm the other.
Imagine the USSR releasing stolen British Government papers to aid the Labour party in the 1983 election. Still sound okay?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
The tricky thing here is that as far as I can tell there are no forensics to say for sure that either of the hacker groups in question actually did release that info to Wikileaks.
There does appear to be plausible evidence that they were in the DNC networks, but those two groups have been found in all kinds of politically significant networks over the last decade or so, so that in itself isn't conclusive evidence of anything beyond them doing what they normally do.
That's not to say that they didn't give stuff to Wikileaks, but I think treating the assertion that they did as proven fact is problematic for a variety of reasons.
Edited to add: especially when both sides in the US election are still spinning the shit out of everything in sight.
There does appear to be plausible evidence that they were in the DNC networks, but those two groups have been found in all kinds of politically significant networks over the last decade or so, so that in itself isn't conclusive evidence of anything beyond them doing what they normally do.
That's not to say that they didn't give stuff to Wikileaks, but I think treating the assertion that they did as proven fact is problematic for a variety of reasons.
Edited to add: especially when both sides in the US election are still spinning the shit out of everything in sight.
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8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
1. They've been found in lots of places, including enemies of Russia. And Weirdly they've never hacked any Russian Systems.
2. Notes were written in a version of Word registered in Russia.
3. The pattern of hacking suggests it mainly occurred in Russian time zones.
4. One hacker who claimed to be Romanian, was clearly typing his answers into google translation.
The FBI have a legal responsibility to provide evidence "beyond reasonable doubt" the CIA do not.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Sure, the evidence that those two groups are Russian is pretty conclusive, but that doesn't change my point in the least.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Quite. The point is, while the FBI is shackled by providing irrefutable evidence, the CIA is not. Furthermore, it would be naive to assume that the CIA have additional evidence they're unable to publicise. Senate/Congressional inquiries aren't bound by the legal requirements of a criminal prosecution and can hear testimony from privileged security sources.
The point is we're never going to get fingerprints on the ip address levels of evidence, but there should be intelligence that should allow tsome action on it. Whether we will or not depends on republican partisan hackery, and how competent Trump is, if he's a liability expect him to get chucked under the bus.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Also the thing that actually brought down Nixon, wasn't the break in per say, It was the whitehouse staffer who called the FBI and demanded the investigation into the break in be shut down, and essentially tried the "don't you know who I am, and your career is over" routine. That's obstruction of justice. And because he was told to make the call, that's conspiracy to obstruct justice.
The Trump administration will have to tread very lightly around the FBI investigation into the hack.
The Trump administration will have to tread very lightly around the FBI investigation into the hack.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
That may be so, but in a situation where both 'sides' are spinning the shit out of everything in sight, such claims are ... problematic.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
No, of course not, but again, it wouldn't be surprising.
I have had no faith in the 'honesty' of any government for a long time.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Don't forget that Trump can fire the head of the FBI any time he wishes.
I would say, that it is more a case of two utterly corrupt agencies, treading warily around Trump.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
That's the whole point, isn't it? There seems to be no government, or senior civil servant, who is capable of speaking the truth in any situation.
There is concern over 'false news'. There should be more concern of government hiding behind 'data protection' and 'commercial sensitivity' to obfuscate with regard to their actions.
I am all in favour of complete transparency. Every government contract should be published, with details of all bids, and the reason why a particular company got the job. Ditto with the BBC, all salaries should be in the public domain.
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8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
No FBI directors have 10 year terms, and have to be fired for cause, see William Sessions
Also it's not just the consensus of the CIA/FBI/NSA that Russia hacked the election, a variety of foreign intelligence services and internet security companies agree.
The only people are saying it's anyone but the Russians are Trump, Putin, Assange and Wikileaks.
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J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
In that case you will have no problem finding us statements to that effect from the CIA, FBI, NSA and foreign intelligence services.
I think that it is entirely possible that it is true that, indirectly probably, the Russian intelligence services had a role in the Podesta leaks but at the end of the day, perhaps the DNC shouldn't have rigged the primary against Bernie Sanders and if they hadn't then there would be nothing worth leaking in the first place. Interesting that liberals have been focused on the RUSSIA! narrative since the DNC leaks, rather than, you know, those actually responsible for the undermining of the democratic process.
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