TopCat
Putin fanboy
I have never heard of them. But when you are so dismissive without addressing the points I look again.
Blaming Russia
- Thread starter Silas Loom
- Start date
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Assuming Russia did aid Trump (and I'm ot convinced of that) the impact was small, and to focus on that is just deflection away from the fat more significant reasons why he won. I can see why this appeals to Democrats as it mean they don't have to face their own culpability in creating the circumstances for a Trump victory. But refusal to face that and to blame Russia doesn't address anything so it just keeps getting worse. Oh yeah that is another point nothing can be done about.it so again why focus on that instead of other factors.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Does the funding matter?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF I think it would be more correct to say that Russia, and others, pushed at already wide open vulnerabilities that were created by politicians and media types here and in the US.
Why wouldn’t Russia, Israel, Saudi, Egypt or anyone else buy politicians and media time if it’s openly for sale.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
The organised troll farms and cyber stuff is something else, though.
PTK
Paul Kegan
I am old enough to remember when the Russkies and their satellites were behind the Irish Republican Army. A Czechoslovak gunman was seen on the streets of Belfast by the British Army, according to report in the Daily Mirror.
The Black people of South Africa could not be given the vote, because the Russkies would end up with a naval base in that country.
The Black people of South Africa could not be given the vote, because the Russkies would end up with a naval base in that country.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Have you any evidence for these organised troll farms, and are the Russian ones the only ones that exist?
I am not at all defending Russia, I am questioning the propaganda about Russia.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
They are, but they are only successful because a culture has been created where we facilitate that sort of thing.
Cyber fraud for example, it would be far less prevalent if effort hadn’t been made in moving away from loads of banks across the country (which could and still do detect fraud attempts on normal people) to having so much of banking online (which doesn’t).
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
PTK
Paul Kegan
This is slightly off topic.
Does any state control the physical internet? It seems that the USA could do so, as most of it is based in the USA.
“The majority of the world’s internet traffic passes through the town of Ashburn in Loudoun County, Virginia, home to one of the world's major internet exchanges”.
“Pretty much any email sent or received anywhere around the globe, comes through this town. If you’ve got something stored in the cloud, it’s probably in one of the 100-plus data centers located in Loudoun County.”
““The cloud is based somewhere and, by and large, the cloud has been based here in Loudoun County, Virginia, in the data centers, the 18-million-square-feet of data centers that we have on the ground here.””
“Today, the internet is basically housed in the data centers located in the Washington-area suburb, which is the biggest data center market in the world.”
Here's Where the Internet Actually Lives
Does any state control the physical internet? It seems that the USA could do so, as most of it is based in the USA.
“The majority of the world’s internet traffic passes through the town of Ashburn in Loudoun County, Virginia, home to one of the world's major internet exchanges”.
“Pretty much any email sent or received anywhere around the globe, comes through this town. If you’ve got something stored in the cloud, it’s probably in one of the 100-plus data centers located in Loudoun County.”
““The cloud is based somewhere and, by and large, the cloud has been based here in Loudoun County, Virginia, in the data centers, the 18-million-square-feet of data centers that we have on the ground here.””
“Today, the internet is basically housed in the data centers located in the Washington-area suburb, which is the biggest data center market in the world.”
Here's Where the Internet Actually Lives
PTK
Paul Kegan
What would you say if I asked you who funds those sources?
Are we going to form an opinion on the truth of claims on the basis of who funds the organisation making those claims?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
What does the cartoon mean
They were/are involved in the 5 points in your list but the blaming Russia (or Putin) stuff is a little bit tiresome. The whole Brexit/Trump stuff is a good way to avoid looking at some much bigger problems within societies. It's also a handy excuse for our own ruling class now they don't have the EU to blame for their own inadequacies.
In regard to your final point racial tension and communitarian tensions exist, as you tacitly a knowledge, without the need for Russisn interference. Perhaps they do amplify them but there are other things constantly creating and sustaining them: political rhetoric, media spin, material deprivation as well as extremist groups (the far right, Modi lovers, islamic extremists, loyalists etc). As your examples show Russia's influence is largely online. Even in this arena social media algorithms, state actors and the aforementioned extremist groups reinforced by the way they feed off each other are quite capable of amplifying tensions and hatred online leaving Russia at best a competent competitor in the market for fake news and divisive rhetoric.
At that point you have to get into the difference between interference and collusion. Russia is perfectly capable of having some influence in a US election without them having to directly involve a candidate or party in their machinations.
Yossarian
⏭️
Я спросил кого-то в Москве, каково жить при режиме Путина.
Он сказал: «Я не могу жаловаться».
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
ты даже больше не можешь говорить по-английски!!!1!
The reason is that Russia serves as some stand in for a strong white country with conservative values, they are macho and non-woke.
Russia in reality is not quite as traditional, white or Christian as they imagine but in recent years Russian propaganda has done a good job of portraying themselves in a way which appeals to American reactionaries. I feel like Americans in particular tend to see the world through a US lens, and underestimate how much other countries understand the US mentality and how they can play a certain role for their own ends. China also did a similar thing by pretending to be democratising to get investment, and closer to home, Ireland did a very good job at playing up to romanticised American ideas of Ireland in order to secure a lot of investment etc. Russia is doing something similar to that to appeal to the US right with some success.
There are also more clear eyed right wing foreign policy strategists who want to ally with Russia to do a reverse of how Nixon Allied with China against the Soviets.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Very difficult to forgive them for this
TopCat
Putin fanboy
What does it mean?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
It says American
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I suppose my question would be, what practically follows on from blaming Russia for stuff? Afaics, at least as far as online discussion goes, it seems to mostly be a way of not having to engage in good faith with people you disagree with, cos you can write them off as being Russian bots.
I'm sure that, as with many other states, the Russian, Chinese, British, US, and Israeli states all engage in murky covert operations intended to further their interests, but I think that unless you have really compelling reason to think that something is a Russian/Chinese/British/US/Israeli false flag, it's best to engage with it as if it's what it appears to be.
It is very possible that, for instance, the Russian state might have an interest in discouraging people from voting for Harris, if they reckon getting Trump in would be a beneficial outcome. That doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate criticisms of Harris that are worth sharing and discussing, so I dunno where just being aware of the fact that there might be potential Russian actors involved somewhere gets us.
I'm sure that, as with many other states, the Russian, Chinese, British, US, and Israeli states all engage in murky covert operations intended to further their interests, but I think that unless you have really compelling reason to think that something is a Russian/Chinese/British/US/Israeli false flag, it's best to engage with it as if it's what it appears to be.
It is very possible that, for instance, the Russian state might have an interest in discouraging people from voting for Harris, if they reckon getting Trump in would be a beneficial outcome. That doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate criticisms of Harris that are worth sharing and discussing, so I dunno where just being aware of the fact that there might be potential Russian actors involved somewhere gets us.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
They’re cunts, but they’re not the only ones at it, and sometimes with the internet meddling they do it just because others pay them to, because they are good at it. The head of RT recently said that despite sanctions and them being blocked in Europe and the states, since being shut off their ‘content’ has had 14 billion views in the west, laundered through fake and real national news sites and pushed by assorted grifters on the payroll (cf Tenet Media).
I suspect some of the Trump stuff wasn’t just done solely by Russia for reasons of stoking civil war in America and the resultant loss of global power that would bring, but an alliance with far-right/libertarian types. The link between the two seems to run through Orban, but Bannon is a significant node too. Same lot gave us Bolsanaro, but I don’t think Russia had a hand in that one. Mostly done through WhatsApp I recall. I think a lot is about culture war, at least that’s what the western sponsors seem to be in it for, but there’s also libertarian goals of deregulation and being outside of national taxation systems. Russia likely just wants it to all burn down so they can rebuild their empire without opposition, and gain more global power through being at the hesrt of the BRICS ‘multi polar’ world. For this to succeed, the west has to fall.
Fwiw Ukraine was a fairly major hub for internet crime shit, hacking, ransomware etc. Some of that capability had been harnessed in their defence against Russia’s aggression. Romania also has a bad rep for it.
I suspect some of the Trump stuff wasn’t just done solely by Russia for reasons of stoking civil war in America and the resultant loss of global power that would bring, but an alliance with far-right/libertarian types. The link between the two seems to run through Orban, but Bannon is a significant node too. Same lot gave us Bolsanaro, but I don’t think Russia had a hand in that one. Mostly done through WhatsApp I recall. I think a lot is about culture war, at least that’s what the western sponsors seem to be in it for, but there’s also libertarian goals of deregulation and being outside of national taxation systems. Russia likely just wants it to all burn down so they can rebuild their empire without opposition, and gain more global power through being at the hesrt of the BRICS ‘multi polar’ world. For this to succeed, the west has to fall.
Fwiw Ukraine was a fairly major hub for internet crime shit, hacking, ransomware etc. Some of that capability had been harnessed in their defence against Russia’s aggression. Romania also has a bad rep for it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's as far as you ever get with silas
PTK
Paul Kegan
Did your grandad have a fur hat and snow on his boots?
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