The big urban poll: Do you think Brexit has gone well or badly?
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Coming from East Kent, I'd say that a county-wide selective education system is a contributory factor to the Lincolnshire hotspot.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
It's quite a fascinating map (you can see the interactive version here - Britain was wrong to leave the EU - UnHerd Britain) - jumps out that the places with a large amount of people still supporting Brexit are largely rural. Appears much of the 'red wall' is no longer very Brexit minded, except for South Yorkshire / East Midlands.
Yossarian
⏭️
There was a big surge in agricultural workers from eastern Europe after 2004, which put a lot of pressure on services in the area - the anti-EU sentiment has apparently lingered despite problems Brexit has caused for the local economy. Those who left after Brexit, meanwhile, might be unlikely to return even if it was reversed.
Among those employed before Brexit was Ieva Klavina, a Latvian who worked on Ms. Pettitt’s farm after arriving in Britain with a university degree in 2011 — and staying for five years.
...Ms. Klavina said she understood the reasons behind the Brexit vote because Boston had struggled to cope with its swollen population. And given the better opportunities at home and the obstacles created by Brexit, working on Britain’s farms is no longer particularly attractive to young Latvians, she said.
“Young people think differently to how I was thinking when I was 22 years old,” Ms. Klavina said. “When I tell people in Latvia about my experience, they say, ‘Oh, my God, you really did that?'
For British Farmers, the Effects of Brexit Have Become Clearer - The …
archived 24 Jan 2023 09:53:59 UTC
Yossarian
⏭️
This CNBC reporter claims Boston's Stump & Candle pub "escalated from a quiet midday hum to a bellowing cacophony" when he started asking people about Brexit in November 2019.
One man in his sixties who spoke to CNBC in the Stump & Candle attributed the disgruntlement not to the migrants themselves, but to a lack of U.K. government spending to enable public services to deal with the surging population.
“Did they give us more police, more doctors, more hospitals, more schools, better roads? Did they give us anything to cope with it? No. We got dumped on,” he says, adding that Boston used to be a “beautiful little town and still could be,” but has been reduced to an “empty shell.”
Contrary to his peers, he welcomes the presence of migrant workers as a positive for the area, but claims the presence of large supermarkets at the expense of local businesses has “drawn the lifeblood” out of Boston.
Much of the anger which fueled the Brexit vote seems to stem from a sense of neglect by consecutive British governments, rather than any long-running gripe with the EU itself.
“When you come up from London and you see the roads in London, and then you see from Peterborough to here, they don’t spend any money on any of it,” the man points out indignantly.
But: almost to a man, the regulars will be voting for Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Conservative Party next month in the hope of getting Brexit over the line before the extended deadline of January 3.
One man in his sixties who spoke to CNBC in the Stump & Candle attributed the disgruntlement not to the migrants themselves, but to a lack of U.K. government spending to enable public services to deal with the surging population.
“Did they give us more police, more doctors, more hospitals, more schools, better roads? Did they give us anything to cope with it? No. We got dumped on,” he says, adding that Boston used to be a “beautiful little town and still could be,” but has been reduced to an “empty shell.”
Contrary to his peers, he welcomes the presence of migrant workers as a positive for the area, but claims the presence of large supermarkets at the expense of local businesses has “drawn the lifeblood” out of Boston.
Much of the anger which fueled the Brexit vote seems to stem from a sense of neglect by consecutive British governments, rather than any long-running gripe with the EU itself.
“When you come up from London and you see the roads in London, and then you see from Peterborough to here, they don’t spend any money on any of it,” the man points out indignantly.
But: almost to a man, the regulars will be voting for Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Conservative Party next month in the hope of getting Brexit over the line before the extended deadline of January 3.
not a trot
Well-Known Member
What's Brexit ? Asking for a friend.
ska invita
back on the other side
better than expected so far tbh
Supine
Newt Member
You must have had very low expectations!
There was a big surge in agricultural workers from eastern Europe after 2004, which put a lot of pressure on services in the area - the anti-EU sentiment has apparently lingered despite problems Brexit has caused for the local economy. Those who left after Brexit, meanwhile, might be unlikely to return even if it was reversed.
Among those employed before Brexit was Ieva Klavina, a Latvian who worked on Ms. Pettitt’s farm after arriving in Britain with a university degree in 2011 — and staying for five years.
...Ms. Klavina said she understood the reasons behind the Brexit vote because Boston had struggled to cope with its swollen population. And given the better opportunities at home and the obstacles created by Brexit, working on Britain’s farms is no longer particularly attractive to young Latvians, she said.
“Young people think differently to how I was thinking when I was 22 years old,” Ms. Klavina said. “When I tell people in Latvia about my experience, they say, ‘Oh, my God, you really did that?'
For British Farmers, the Effects of Brexit Have Become Clearer - The …
archived 24 Jan 2023 09:53:59 UTCarchive.is
There is an interesting point there about Britain no longer being appealing to young Latvians.
Empire unravels: UK’s cautionary tale of self-destruction
Great Britain has long since formally relinquished its dreams of world domination, but the implied bargain of imperial retreat was something like a tenured chair at the table of global elders.
According to this, the average Slovenian family will be better off than the average British family by the end of this year, and the average Polish family will be richer by the end of the decade.
A lot has changed since 2011 - UK wages have been repressed, in part by government policy, but other countries haven't stood still and Eastern Europe has actually had quite significant wage growth. It is actually quite shocking how much poorer we are now (in tetms of typical wages) compared to countries that were formerly our peers before the Tories came into power. A nurse to the UK coming from Latvia is probably going to have a drop in disposal income these days when cost of housing is factored in.
Knowing it’s not raining, pissing down their own legs and not even bothering to wonder where the water is coming from
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It was always a terrible idea, but at every point, I scarcely imagined it could be done this badly.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It’s one of those questions that needs more context. What was it intended to do? Withdraw from the EU. As far as I’m aware, the UK has indeed withdrawn from the EU.
I do YouGov polls. Until I get to questions like this, then I abandon the survey as unanswerable.
I do YouGov polls. Until I get to questions like this, then I abandon the survey as unanswerable.
ska invita
back on the other side
btw Slovenia is the country next to Italy, not to be confused with Slovakia (like i did)There is an interesting point there about Britain no longer being appealing to young Latvians.
Empire unravels: UK’s cautionary tale of self-destruction
Great Britain has long since formally relinquished its dreams of world domination, but the implied bargain of imperial retreat was something like a tenured chair at the table of global elders.www.dtnext.in
According to this, the average Slovenian family will be better off than the average British family by the end of this year, and the average Polish family will be richer by the end of the decade.
A lot has changed since 2011 - UK wages have been repressed, in part by government policy, but other countries haven't stood still and Eastern Europe has actually had quite significant wage growth. It is actually quite shocking how much poorer we are now (in tetms of typical wages) compared to countries that were formerly our peers before the Tories came into power. A nurse to the UK coming from Latvia is probably going to have a drop in disposal income these days when cost of housing is factored in.
but yes its literally unbelievable to me that Poland will overtake the UK
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Get Boris Johnson elected.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Ah, now that’s a different question: “Britain was wrong to leave the UK” do you strongly agree, mildly agree, neither, mildly disagree, strongly disagree?
Poland Wages 2023 | Minimum & Average | Take-profit.org
Wages in Poland was 1493.979 USD/Month in 2023. Latest statistics on minimum and average salaries in Poland. Historical data on low and high skilled wages on Take-profit.org.
take-profit.org
Average monthly pay in Poland is about 1,500 USD with 10% pay growth.
United Kingdom Wages 2023 | Minimum & Average | Take-profit.org
Wages in United Kingdom was 2798.54 USD/Month in 2019. Latest statistics on minimum and average salaries in United Kingdom. Historical data on low and high skilled wages on Take-profit.org.
take-profit.org
UK average monthly pay is 2,870 USD, with pay growth of 3.8%.
The difference is considerable but not radical, the Polish average wage is about 52% of the UK wage and growing significantly faster. When factoring in the greater inequality in the UK, the median of the two countries is probably closer than that.
Poland averaged around 6% wage growth between 2006 and 2022.
Poland Corporative Sector Wage Growth - December 2022 Data - 2006-2021 Historical
Poland’s corporate sector wages increased by 10.3 percent year-on-year to PLN 7,329.96 in December of 2022, easing from a 13.9 percent growth in the prior month and below market forecasts of 12.4 percent rise. On a monthly basis, corporate wages grew by 6.9 percent, prompted by payments of among...
tradingeconomics.com
6% wage growth per year over a period of 16 years is quite a lot. Consider that UK wages haven't risen in that time and are reasonably expected to be lower than in 2008 by 2026 and you can see how being surpassed by some of the better performing countries in Eastern Europe (Czechia, Slovenia, Poland and the Baltics) isn't in the distant future at all.
I think this is a lot more to do with austerity and under-investment than Brexit, but Brexit certainly hasn't helped either.
ska invita
back on the other side
Poland currently also has 16% inflation and housing costs are starting to really go up
notesfrompoland.com
Inflation unexpectedly rises further in Poland to new 25-year high of 16.1%
"Ouch," said analysts at mBank, commenting on inflation figures that exceeded most forecasts.
notesfrompoland.com
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
It’s gone swimmingly..it motivated me to leave the benighted British Isles. 
Yossarian
⏭️
"Ever closer union" with Doggerland
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
I think there is a very big distinction between "do you think that Britain was wrong to leave the EU?" and "do you think that Britain was wrong to let the most shambolic, greedy, inept government that has probably ever existed since the extension of universal sufferage take us out of the EU?"
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
We are, to be precise, West Doggerland.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I suspect a fair amount of the 36% who said in the poll Brexit hasn’t gone badly, privately think otherwise but are in denial to admit it to themselves, let alone others, even if anonymously, how much they have fucked up.
Wouldn’t expect most of the hard right, Daily Mail types to be in that category, because even if the country were in flames they’d still be happy that We Took Back Control.
But a great many of working class & left wing Brexit voters are likely to feeling more foolish by the day. And the more left wing their politics, the less likely they to admit any time soon they were utterly wrong to support Brexit. Because every passing day makes the scale of their misjudgment and the unnecessary damage and loss of rights Brexit has brought upon.
The referendum was never an EU popularity contest. It has plenty of faults and fundamental issues. But there should have never been any doubt in anyone’s mind that it was clearly preferable for ordinary people’s lives than leaving.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Can you explain why? (I've no idea what a county-wide selective education system is either)
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