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The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

Pickman's model said:
if you don't want people to reply to your posts, it's very simple - don't submit them

as for the events of today i think it's rather too early to comment as it is unclear for who's consumption he meant them. i am not persuaded it is people in this this country, as this government and its predecessors have done precious little to do anything meaningful to help lay the foundations for a successful future outside the eu on a no deal basis. and future negotiations are scheduled.

unlike you i hope things don't crash and burn for people in this country, for them to be trapped in a johnsonian hellhole. i hope that however it ends it ends with johnson and his ilk alongside all those others who wished the people of the country ill. which i suppose includes you.
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You think what you do is 'reply'?
 
TopCat said:
Reuters is reporting Johnson as saying that the EU has abandoned the idea of a free trade deal and unless the EU makes fundamental changes to its approach, the UK will go for no deal.

Johnson has said UK wanted nothing more than Canada-style deal.

He has also reportedly said that given that the EU have refused to negotiate seriously he has concluded the UK should get ready for an Australia style deal and has suggested businesses get ready for such an arrangement.
Click to expand...

oh fuck Boris


hopefully he force to request for an extension and catch covid for a second time on the same day
 
philosophical said:
The situation regarding the land border in Ireland has always been a central feature of brexit, as Charles Michel highlighted again today.
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no, no it hasn't

it only became a central feature of brexit when theresa may unilaterally decided that many possible exits involving remaining within the single market or customs union would be discarded. if, for example, the uk had applied for efta membership or sought some other arrangement which saw continued membership of the eea it would never have been a feature of brexit at all
 
Pickman's model said:
no, no it hasn't

it only became a central feature of brexit when theresa may unilaterally decided that many possible exits involving remaining within the single market or customs union would be discarded. if, for example, the uk had applied for efta membership or sought some other arrangement which saw continued membership of the eea it would never have been a feature of brexit at all
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Theresa May highlighted the Irish border issue even before the brexit referendum her very self.
It is not my little obsession but a significant feature of what Lord Buckethead predicted, this shitshow.
If you believe (as you seem to be saying in your post, correct me if I am wrong) that concerns about peace in Ireland belong in some kind of dustbin that is a bit of a manoever to manage simply to get in another dig at me.
 
philosophical said:
Theresa May highlighted the Irish border issue even before the brexit referendum her very self.
It is not my little obsession but a significant feature of what Lord Buckethead predicted, this shitshow.
If you believe (as you seem to be saying in your post, correct me if I am wrong) that concerns about peace in Ireland belong in some kind of dustbin that is a bit of a manoever to manage simply to get in another dig at me.
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what i believe is that there are many scenarios for departure from the european union in which the safety of the good friday agreement would have been assured from the start. as i made clear in my post. in any case it's not 'peace in ireland' but 'pacification in the six counties' in which sinn fein have assumed a prominent role in upholding british rule there, with sinn fein mlas becoming ministers of the crown, no less. anyone who has been following with attention the progress of the good friday agreement will agree with alistair mcintyre that it is the death of irish republicanism that is sought. it was not a stepping stone on the road to a united ireland. if a united ireland results from the current situation then it's serendipitous. but a united ireland, i think, was not by itself the goal of irish republicans over the past century. a 32 county state which retained the dubious services of fianna fail or fine gael would be as foul as the partition states it superseded.
 
killer b said:
lol what. You reckon the pissed off coastal communities of France are begging Macron to cave? :D
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Not at the moment. But when they get fuck all instead of something they will blame Macron. Loads of countries leaders will give them a lead. Macron and Barnier are likely to carry the can amongst the 27 and their people.
 
Do you think the same will happen in Britain's pissed-off coastal communities? The intransigence of Johnson blamed instead of the perfidious union?
 
Pickman's model said:
what i believe is that there are many scenarios for departure from the european union in which the safety of the good friday agreement would have been assured from the start. as i made clear in my post. in any case it's not 'peace in ireland' but 'pacification in the six counties' in which sinn fein have assumed a prominent role in upholding british rule there, with sinn fein mlas becoming ministers of the crown, no less. anyone who has been following with attention the progress of the good friday agreement will agree with alistair mcintyre that it is the death of irish republicanism that is sought. it was not a stepping stone on the road to a united ireland. if a united ireland results from the current situation then it's serendipitous. but a united ireland, i think, was not by itself the goal of irish republicans over the past century. a 32 county state which retained the dubious services of fianna fail or fine gael would be as foul as the partition states it superseded.
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If you are saying Irish Republicanism, is about nationalism then I agree it is a pile of chite, because in my view nationalism is a pile of chite.
I disagree with your premise that departure from the EU could have happened with the safety of the GFA 'assured'.
Unless you mean it would have been some kind of pretend departure, what used to be called brexit in name only. The more sophisticated might even call it a 'customs union', which to my mind would not be 'leave' as voted for.
I repeat for the millionth time, if 'departure' or 'leave' means two different systems side by side then there is a border in between. That is what puts the GFA at risk.
Again there could be an unspoken 'turn a blind eye' situation, which pleases the Ealing Comedy Whisky Galore fans I suppose, but in that situation eventually it would be pointed out that the Emperor has no clothes.
However I do agree that if a united Ireland comes out of all this it would almost be by accident, but it wouldn't be brexit as voted for.
 
killer b said:
Do you think the same will happen in Britain's pissed-off coastal communities? The intransigence of Johnson blamed instead of the perfidious union?
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Our long pissed off coastal communities are likely quite excited at the moment. I just regret that it's the tories leading us into this.
Labour would have done it far better.
 
philosophical said:
If you are saying Irish Republicanism, is about nationalism then I agree it is a pile of chite, because in my view nationalism is a pile of chite.
I disagree with your premise that departure from the EU could have happened with the safety of the GFA 'assured'.
Unless you mean it would have been some kind of pretend departure, what used to be called brexit in name only. The more sophisticated might even call it a 'customs union', which to my mind would not be 'leave' as voted for.
I repeat for the millionth time, if 'departure' or 'leave' means two different systems side by side then there is a border in between. That is what puts the GFA at risk.
Again there could be an unspoken 'turn a blind eye' situation, which pleases the Ealing Comedy Whisky Galore fans I suppose, but in that situation eventually it would be pointed out that the Emperor has no clothes.
However I do agree that if a united Ireland comes out of all this it would almost be by accident, but it wouldn't be brexit as voted for.
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irish republicanism has always had a class dimension from wolfe tone to the present, it's not a comfy middle-class philosophy.

you can deny whatever you please. but there was no requirement on any government to quit the eea, to quit the single market, to quit the customs union. no one ever voted not to enter efta.

lest we forget the question and answers available on 23/6/16 were
1602858816522.png
no opinion on efta, the eea, the single market, the customs union was sought.
 
TopCat said:
Our long pissed off coastal communities are likely quite excited at the moment. I just regret that it's the tories leading us into this.
Labour would have done it far better.
Click to expand...
TBH it's all pretty academic what the various coastal communities would do in the event of no deal, as there's going to be a deal. But I find it pretty unlikely that there will be much support in France for what's widely considered to be an act of nationalist hubris on the part of the English, even if it all ended in tears.
 
TopCat said:
Not at the moment. But when they get fuck all instead of something they will blame Macron. Loads of countries leaders will give them a lead. Macron and Barnier are likely to carry the can amongst the 27 and their people.
Click to expand...

It's true. We hold all the cards.
 
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