Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

I agree it doesn't solve anything, but it also doesn't cause chaos - so that's preferable to everyone without swivel eyes.

The EU are obviously not dependent on us, but the very real hit that no deal would cause them will mean an extensions is always on the table, IMO.
To put it another way, I think the EU view is that the UK inevitably has to accept the deal because, apart from all the natural consequences, it is not currently anything close to logistically ready.

But, if the UK sniffs an extension, they will take it and they can spend that period getting ready (as opposed to rethinking), then at the end of it they might be able to refuse the deal. So, the EU is not going to allow an extension, which is why is has been very public about it's contingency offer. If there is no deal, that is the route that is left, not an extension.
 
Last edited:
TopCat

‘no-deal’ exit from the Brexit transition period on January 1 will plunge the UK into a world of uncertainty as Boris Johnson pulls the plug on nearly 30 years of EU single market membership overnight. Here, a team of FT writers and specialists looks at consequences that are likely to flow from such a decision in nine sectors — from food to financial services and travel to medicines. The currency The first impact — which is likely to precede the January 1, 2021 departure date — is a sharp fall in the value of the pound. At its most extreme, analysts predict it could lose more than a fifth of its current value against both the dollar and the euro if talks break down irrevocably. Opinions differ on how low sterling could go. Jordan Rochester, a currency strategist at Nomura in London, predicts the pound could sink to near parity with the dollar, while Paul Robson, head of G10 currency strategy at NatWest Markets, is more optimistic, betting the pound may fall “to the low $1.20s”. Leaving without a deal would most likely give UK government bonds — known as gilts — a boost as investors seek a safe-haven, allowing the Treasury to borrow even more cheaply than it can currently. Eva Szalay and Tommy Stubbington

The City The financial services industry — the UK’s largest services export — is likely to weather the initial storm of a WTO-terms exit since it has been preparing for several years to leave on ‘no-deal’ terms. The City has tried to prepare itself © REUTERS Many companies have already set up legal offices in the UK and EU to cater to local customers and have begun moving people and business. Some more relocations would likely be triggered by a hard rupture. But no deal still jeopardises agreements to manage cross-border activity, from trading shares and derivatives to sharing data. How much business will leave London in the longer term is unknown. Philip Stafford

Ports and borders Under the government’s published ‘reasonable worst-case scenario’, up to 7,000 trucks could stack up on the motorways outside Dover and other Channel ports, with delays of up to two days. Dover could be hit by long queues © AP The government is expected to do everything it can to prioritise traffic flows on goods coming from Europe, but UK officials fear that queues will still form as a result of “blowback” from the EU’s decision to bring in full border controls from January 1. How long this will take to settle down is not clear. The government has warned that queues could last from three to six months and has plans to reroute traffic and deploy large numbers of portable toilets to the roadsides to cater for stranded drivers. Peter Foster

Travel UK travellers to the EU will feel some of the most obvious consequences of no deal, although the restrictions caused by the Covid-19 measures could mask these changes initially. Covid curbs could initially mask no-deal repercussions © FTgraphic/PA Unless deals can be rapidly agreed with the EU, drivers will need to obtain an international driving permit and get a physical copy of their ‘green card’ proof of insurance document from their car insurers. UK citizens will face longer queues at passport control as they use lanes for non EU-EEA passengers. Controls will also be stricter on bringing pets into the EU. Brussels has announced unilateral steps to keep planes flying, but some problems may be experienced with flight connections. Travellers will also need to obtain travel insurance since the EHIC card that offered reciprocal care in EU countries will no longer be valid. The UK government was trying to negotiate a new reciprocal scheme, but it is not clear how lack of a deal will affect this. Jim Brunsden, Peter Foster

Food supplies A no-deal Brexit would lead to immediate food price inflation and shortages of some — mostly perishable — products in the supermarkets, say industry analysts. Food price inflation would be immediate if tariffs are imposed © REUTERS Tesco predicts that tariffs imposed on January 1 will cause price rises for most EU goods, pushing up consumers’ overall food bills by 3 to 5 per cent. The government disputes this. The price of butter, which is mainly imported, will rise, while speciality cheeses such as feta will cost as much as 55 per cent more, according to the London School of Economics. Analysts have stopped short of predicting overall food shortages, but imports of fresh produce will face delays caused by EU checks. The UK relies heavily on European fruit, lettuce and tomatoes in January, and risks these products being left to rot at the border. At the same time, a collapse in lamb exports caused by tariffs is likely to lead to a domestic surplus. Judith Evans and Emiko Terazono

The car industry Few industries are as exposed to cross-border trade as the auto industry. It expects prices to rise for consumers even if sterling drops, as cars and their components face up to 10 per cent tariffs after Brexit. The car sector is particularly exposed to cross-border trade © Bloomberg More than 1.5m cars are imported to the UK in a typical year, while even those cars built domestically contain huge numbers of parts from across Europe. The industry has also warned it will be more difficult for the UK to attract electric cars, with manufacturers in Germany and elsewhere diverting their limited stock to more profitable markets. Longer term, industry analysts warn that consumer choice is likely to dwindle if the government sets up its own standards and certification regime that may make it too costly to bother registering some models in the UK. Peter Campbell

Research and education Leaving the EU without a deal would end UK involvement in the €80bn Horizon programme of research funding and collaboration, which could dent the ability of universities to do groundbreaking research in areas including science and medicine. The UK government and research organisations have said they will try to negotiate to secure a future relationship with Horizon even in the event of a no-deal Brexit. The €80bn Horizon research collaboration project could be hit © Getty Images The future of the Erasmus student exchange programme is unclear whether or not a deal is struck. Existing students will still be able to participate, but the government has said it will fund a UK global student exchange programme to replace Erasmus if it decides to end British participation. Bethan Staton

Medicines and pharmaceuticals Pharma leaders in the UK and mainland Europe are unanimous that patients will face the risk of delays to obtaining vital medicines in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Without a “mutual recognition agreement” accepting the validity of each others’ safety testing regimes, pharmaceutical trade bodies on both sides of the Channel have warned of delays of up to six weeks in obtaining medicines for patients. Delivery of medicines could face delays © Getty Images In the short term, the UK government says it has taken contingency measures to avoid medicine shortages. The department of health has created a stockpile and instructed pharma companies to keep back six weeks' worth of supply in the UK. Sarah Neville

Northern Ireland The protocol to keep open Northern Ireland’s 310-mile land border with the Irish Republic will continue to apply in a no-deal scenario, protecting the Good Friday peace agreement that ended the conflict in the region. However, arrangements to create a trade border in the Irish Sea could come under pressure. The Good Friday Agreement will be at risk © AP Even with the temporary measures agreed with Brussels this week to reduce border disruption, the imposition of full WTO tariffs between the EU and the UK will put a strain on the agreement that all goods flowing into Northern Ireland from Great Britain must follow EU customs rules. Recommended Payne's Politics podcast28 min listen Time running out for Brexit trade deal Some hardline Brexiters could also use a no-deal exit to renew demands to drop the protocol entirely, damaging the Good Friday Agreement and threatening trade talks with US president-elect Joe Biden, who strongly supports the peace pact. A no-deal could also destabilise the region’s devolved executive which is led by the pro-Brexit Democratic Unionists and remain-supporting Sinn Féin Irish nationalists
 
How will that look?
It'll look shit. It'll be shit for everyone apart from the rich elite who will continue to profit from misery. And especially shit for musicians and the arts.

But at least we've got those British blue passports for all those journeys we can no longer take/afford.
 
How will Macron appease his farmers, angry at the loss of access to selling in the UK?
Probably with subsidy. But also the loss of access to the UK will coincide with increase in demand all over the rest of Europe, because no-one will want to buy British produce.
 
Probably with subsidy. But also the loss of access to the UK will coincide with increase in demand all over the rest of Europe, because no-one will want to buy British produce.
If patriotism and nationalism really rises to the surface here over produce who knows where it will go.
 
There's no such thing as a deadline when it comes to these things. If the EU and the UK decided to extend, then they'll extend.

That's probably still true, but I get the impression patience is wearing pretty thin on the other side of the Channel. They've never trusted Johnson, and they certainly don't after all the Internal Market Bill nonsense. That's probably why they're insisting on so much being in a binding treaty now, rather than side notes and gentlemen's agreements to sort particular problems out further down the line. Plus, Barnier said a couple of extensions ago, 'don't waste this time,' to which the British government responded by achieving nothing beyond yet more arguments. From the EU's point of view you could see a case for getting it over with and letting Britain crawl back begging for a deal after a few months of disruption.

I still think the odds are on a deal or some kind of extension, but the chances of a crash-out are rising fast now. I remember someone writing back in 2016 - I think - that the EU won't throw Britain off the cliff, but ultimately won't stop it if it's determined to jump. That point now looks to be nearly on us.
 
But, if the UK sniffs an extension, they will take it and they can spend that period getting ready (as opposed to rethinking), then at the end of it they might be able to refuse the deal.
How is this scenario worse for the EU than the current one?

1. Let the UK leave with no deal, no extension. Chaos everywhere, planes grounded, needless deaths from medicine shortages (assuming all the doomsday scenarios come true)
2. Give the UK an extension and time to sort its shit out. The UK spends two years preparing (lol), and then leaves with no deal.

Firstly, the EU doesn't want us to leave. So 2 more years of UK in(ish) the club is better than nothing. Especially as we'd have no voting/decision rights but will still have to abide by the rules.
Secondly, the EU does not want chaos on its doorstep. It doesn't want leaving the EU to look like an attractive proposition, but it also doesn't want the doomsday scenario. It's not good for business on either side of the channel, nor is it good for the Irish.

So even if your scenario is likely to happen, it's still the best option for the EU.
 
The UK have said they wont be ramping up checks at the ports so unless the roads in France are blocked, we still get our Lidl.
 
Strikes me that they're burgling this through under the cover of the pandemic. I think the whole country would be up in arms, demos on the streets, etc, were it not for covid.

Not sure about that. It'd certainly be higher up the agenda and people would be more active on both sides, but I think it'd take a lot bigger and more visible an economic hit to get people out on the streets in much greater numbers than most of the demos last year. I think the political atmosphere would be rather more like it was around the time parliament was prorogued.
 
Is there anti uk sentiment in france at the moment?
According to a friend who was back in France recently, there is still a fair bit of bewilderment over this obvious act of self-harm. But, as here, the primary concern of most French people is getting through the pandemic. Covid doesn't just provide cover for Johnson.
 
Is there anti uk sentiment in france at the moment?
of sorry i thought you were talking about the UK

French fisherman have long ago said theyd block french ports to stop uk fish being landed if unhappy with the deal, so there is that
The fish traffic tends to be in that direction
 
of sorry i thought you were talking about the UK

French fisherman have long ago said theyd block french ports to stop uk fish being landed if unhappy with the deal, so there is that
The fish traffic tends to be in that direction
Plus Macron has been using the pandemic pretty cynically as a means to squash the yellow vests movement. It's not easy to tell exactly how things are in France atm for that reason.
 
Back
Top Bottom