SWP split?

[Nigel Irritable]

sectarian shite.

What he calls himself is irrelevant, he was sacked for doing his job as a union steward. Anyone in that position should be supported.

Yes. Some people here, in their dislike of the SWP or of Baksh personally, are missing this central point.

When someone is sacked for being a left wing activist or for being an effective union steward their personal likeability is irrelevant. We don't insist that workers pass a "not a prick" test before we support them against victimisation.

That's quite different from wanting to share a campaign group with them or whatever. In those circumstances people are perfectly entitled not to want to associate themselves with someone who is disruptive or annoying.

(I've never met they guy and have no idea if he really is as much of a pain in the arse as the less than glowing testimonials in this thread make out. I don't think it's relevant either way).

 

[butchersapron]

No one here has argued any different.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

No one here has argued any different.

When he was whinging about being victimised by his employer and union, he got pretty much no support including from people who believed him, because they just couldn't bring themselves to work with him.

I fail to see why people who had been bullied and threatened by Baksh and seen him wreck several initiatives should then have defended him

?

 

[butchersapron]

That describing people who didn't - not arguing that no one should.

edit: fwiw, my postion is with you and belboid.I don't think there's been another postion put forward on this thread.

 

[articul8]

I think Rod is arguing that they were right not to have supported YB.

 

[butchersapron]

He's said no such thing though. He's, in fact argued, that the group he's involved with did just that. Maybe he is arguing the other point.

 

[audiotech]

Odious man, remember him from my time in Newcastle in the early 90's.

Aww, did he upset your middle-class sensitivities?

I remember Yunus being particularly 'odious' to some fascists who turned up to cause trouble at an SWP meeting. They quickly realised their mistake in turning up at all and scarpered sharpish.

 

[butchersapron]

You make such crap things up.

 

[articul8]

Even a stopped clock...(or odious prick)...

 

[audiotech]

You make such crap things up.

Only in your dumb brain.

 

[butchersapron]

He just makes it up. He always does.

Whatever is convenient at the time. He thinks people haven't noticed.

 

[audiotech]

Twice as dumb.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

Aww, did he upset your middle-class sensitivities?

I remember Yunus being particularly 'odious' to some fascists who turned up to cause trouble at an SWP meeting. They quickly realised their mistake in turning up at all and scarpered sharpish.

Yes he is pretty hard, the problem is when he uses that against leftwingers, which he does quite a lot.

As I said to Belboid, anarchists were pretty much the only people in Newcastle except a small number of the local SWP branch to support Bash.

Personally I am quite happy to defend people who had been on the receiving end of Basher's odiousness from the need to defend him.

I was away when it all kicked off, but if I had been around I would not have got involved unless Basher was prepared to promise not to bully, intimidate, or harass people again. Some people the movement is better off without, and he is one of them.

 

[The39thStep]

Yes he is pretty hard, the problem is when he uses that against leftwingers, which he does quite a lot.

As I said to Belboid, anarchists were pretty much the only people in Newcastle except a small number of the local SWP branch to support Bash.

Personally I am quite happy to defend people who had been on the receiving end of Basher's odiousness from the need to defend him.

I was away when it all kicked off, but if I had been around I would not have got involved unless Basher was prepared to promise not to bully, intimidate, or harass people again. Some people the movement is better off without, and he is one of them.

Yunus just doesn't like liberals

 

[Rod Sleeves]

Yunus just doesn't like liberals

Or socialists or trade unionists who aren't in the SWP, or women who disagree with him, or people in the SWP who disagree with him.

 

[The39thStep]

Or socialists or trade unionists who aren't in the SWP, or women who disagree with him, or people in the SWP who disagree with him.

or is it more of a problem with the above who despite all their anti imperialist theory in practise might not like the idea of a black person giving the orders?

 

[Rod Sleeves]

or is it more of a problem with the above who despite all their anti imperialist theory in practise might not like the idea of a black person giving the orders?

I think it was more a problem of people not liking being given orders by a bullying sexist thuggish socially unaware cunt.

ETA: I thought he was Turkish or summat not black?

 

[Silver_Fox]

ETA: I thought he was Turkish or summat not black?

39th step was right. Racist.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

39th step was right. Racist.

Jog on you knob. Just because I thought Basher was white, I'm a racist?

 

[Silver_Fox]

It was a joke.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

It was a joke.

Fair enough sorry for the over reaction.

 

[audiotech]

Yes he is pretty hard,

Assertive I would say, but I accept some people might want to bandy about any old pejorative term if they wish to. I expect that from the employers though.

 

[Fedayn]

or is it more of a problem with the above who despite all their anti imperialist theory in practise might not like the idea of a black person giving the orders?

Aaah, so that's why people think Weyman Bennett is a twat. Got it.....

 

[Macullam]

When he was whinging about being victimised by his employer and union, he got pretty much no support including from people who believed him, because they just couldn't bring themselves to work with him.

Not true even if I share some of your views about his personality. There has been support both regionally and on a national basis. The campaign has now run out of steam and we are left with a right wing dominated regional union. Only a handful left willing to stand up to the bureucrats and an atmosphere of intimidation and witchunts. The union is weaker and led by careerists who boast of non existant campaigns against the BNP and privatisation.

 

[Red Cat]

Not true even if I share some of your views about his personality. There has been support both regionally and on a national basis. The campaign has now run out of steam and we are left with a right wing dominated regional union. Only a handful left willing to stand up to the bureucrats and an atmosphere of intimidation and witchunts. The union is weaker and led by careerists who boast of non existant campaigns against the BNP and privatisation.

Well I'm glad someone else apart from me has commented on the context of privatisation in this.

 

[The39thStep]

Aaah, so that's why people think Weyman Bennett is a twat. Got it.....

There was no need to mug him thoughh

 

[Rod Sleeves]

There was no need to mug him thoughh

I needed a new phone

 

[Fedayn]

There was no need to mug him thoughh

 

[belboid]

nothing here on the split in the irish grouplet?

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/94807

 

[The Black Hand]

Baksh may welo be a nasty little cunt, but the above comment is utterly shameful, and those people who stood on the sidelines when a union rep was victimised are no better than scabs.

Typical behaviour from 'anarchists' tho

Means and ends means and ends. If there was somebody who I had fallen out with, then I wouldn't be enthusiastic about 'supporting' them. Its stupid utopian leftism to assume otherwise, people have feelings and to dismiss them so easily is one of the reasons the left (for want of a better word) is in a shit state.

What I do, I do because I see the worth in it, not out of some misplaced and utopian sense of duty, which to my mind also sounds like 'the right to work'.