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SWP split?

It sounds like the whole of Tyneside SWP is going to be destroyed and reformed to be honest, you would only appoint an unpopular, frothing mouthed socially unaware thug like Yunus Bash as district organiser if you wanted him to clean the area out of "conservative" elements wedded to old ways.
 
Bristol may well be next given that there's been two de facto parties operating locally for some time now.

Lot of people going to be failing to grasp the new perspective.
 
There's that ,and the picture's also complicated by former long term SWP members Jerry Hicks and Jo Benefield remaining active locally within GG's RESPECT, acting a pole of attraction (as i beleive the trots call it) for longer term SWP members, which itself then causes problems with the new politically inexperienced SWSS members up the road.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
It sounds like the whole of Tyneside SWP is going to be destroyed and reformed to be honest, you would only appoint an unpopular, frothing mouthed socially unaware thug like Yunus Bash as district organiser if you wanted him to clean the area out of "conservative" elements wedded to old ways.
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Really? I've only heard him speak at meetings. I always found him very moving.

It does seem that the SWP are on a bit of a suicide mission these past 10 years. I would say I am still closer to them politically than any other org but every time I think about becoming involved they do something stupid. Last time it was the abolition of the branches 9 years ago and the thought that the leadership are getting all hot under the collar at the moment about trying to rebuild something they destroyed in the first place really pisses me off.

What's Birmingham Stop the War like? I'm aware of splits in everything that seems to have gone on here but didn't pay that much attention at the time.
 
Red Cat said:
Really? I've only heard him speak at meetings. I always found him very moving.
.
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He is universally hated round here (Tyne and Wear), by everyone from Labour party members to anarchists and most people in between, including a lot of local SWP members.

When he was whinging about being victimised by his employer and union, he got pretty much no support including from people who believed him, because they just couldn't bring themselves to work with him.

He is domineering, interrupts people he disagrees with - he particularly tries to bully women and young skinny men, and is not above threatening violence against people he disagrees with either. Everyone has a story about the time Yunus Baksh either threatened them, or disrupted something they were involved in. If you wanted to clear out "backward" elements who refuse to follow the latest turn, you would appoint someone exactly like Baksh to do it.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
When he was whinging about being victimised by his employer and union, he got pretty much no support including from people who believed him, because they just couldn't bring themselves to work with him
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Baksh may welo be a nasty little cunt, but the above comment is utterly shameful, and those people who stood on the sidelines when a union rep was victimised are no better than scabs.

Typical behaviour from 'anarchists' tho
 
belboid said:
Baksh may welo be a nasty little cunt, but the above comment is utterly shameful, and those people who stood on the sidelines when a union rep was victimised are no better than scabs.

Typical behaviour from 'anarchists' tho
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I'm not talking about anarchists (who on the whole did hold their noses and give him at least some support) but the local trots and independent socialists.
 
Anyway I fail to see why people who had been bullied and threatened by Baksh and seen him wreck several initiatives should then have defended him, it's expecting a bit much from people really.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
It sounds like the whole of Tyneside SWP is going to be destroyed and reformed to be honest, you would only appoint an unpopular, frothing mouthed socially unaware thug like Yunus Bash as district organiser if you wanted him to clean the area out of "conservative" elements wedded to old ways.
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Oh blimey. There's a name I've not heard since I was in the SWP ten years ago. I don't remember him as a nice character - more like a ranting loony, tbh - and I dare say not much has changed.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
Anyway I fail to see why people who had been bullied and threatened by Baksh and seen him wreck several initiatives should then have defended him, it's expecting a bit much from people really.
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not if they have any notion of workers solidarity. he wasn't sacked for mis-leading the Newcastle STWC.
 
belboid said:
not if they have any notion of workers solidarity. he wasn't sacked for mis-leading the Newcastle STWC.
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Would you actually advise people to stick up for someone who had shouted them down, threatened them with violence, constantly opposed them and deliberately wrecked meetings and projects because of failing to get his own way?

Why do the Socialist Party activists in Lewisham get broad cross movement support, why has Jerry Hicks, why does Karen Riesman?

Because they are not bullying sexist thugs, maybe?

Bash's lack of support has little to do with his politics, and a lot to do with his attitude and personal behaviour.
 
belboid said:
not if they have any notion of workers solidarity. he wasn't sacked for mis-leading the Newcastle STWC.
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Indeed. His sacking surely taking place in the context of the privatisation of the NHS or have I got that wrong too?

Mis-leading the Newcastle STWC? What was that about then?
 
Forgive my naivety but the SWP is hardly short of strong women members - has he not been pulled up for being a sexist thug?
 
Rod Sleeves said:
Would you actually advise people to stick up for someone who had shouted them down, threatened them with violence, constantly opposed them and deliberately wrecked meetings and projects because of failing to get his own way?
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because he wasn't sacked for any of those things. By refusing to suport him, the bosses and rcists who campaigned against him won a victory.

That is the point, and anyone who ignores it because Baksh is a bit of a cunt sided with the bosses and racists.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
Would you actually advise people to stick up for someone who had shouted them down, threatened them with violence, constantly opposed them and deliberately wrecked meetings and projects because of failing to get his own way?
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In this case it would be difficult and I don't know enough to comment further.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
Would you actually advise people to stick up for someone who had shouted them down, threatened them with violence, constantly opposed them and deliberately wrecked meetings and projects because of failing to get his own way?

Why do the Socialist Party activists in Lewisham get broad cross movement support, why has Jerry Hicks, why does Karen Riesman?

Because they are not bullying sexist thugs, maybe?

Bash's lack of support has little to do with his politics, and a lot to do with his attitude and personal behaviour.
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I'd have to agree with this.

Showing support to someone who actually deserves it is one thing, something I very much approve of. Showing support to a glorified hatchet man, bully, thug and general ne'er do well isn't something I'd be too keen on, personally. Nobody has the right to behave like that and then even expect, let alone demand, that the very people whose efforts and hard work they've so industriously pissed all over should rally round and support them.

I remember, a few years ago now when I worked with local Ploughshares and CND, having similar problems with a former colleague who labelled herself an Anarchist. In practice, all that meant was her doing as she pleased, ploughing her own furrow without reference to the rest of us and demanding, not requesting, that we back her up at every turn when some of the time we didn't even know what she was up to. Things reached such a state that the local Ploughshares and CND groups almost folded, with the rest of the CND group saying that either she resigned or the rest of us would do so in protest at her continued misconduct. She left, the Ploughshares and CND groups survived and have grown without her, and she's since spent much of her time roundly making false accusations against all of us, denouncing us everywhere she can, lying about being 'drummed out of the local groups when she actually resigned, libelling all of us online, attempting physical intimidation and so on.

Simple fact: Sometimes people make a rod for their own backs and a group is better off without them. I'd rather cut someone off (only if absolutely necessary, mind) than show support for someone who shows none for anyone else, who bites the hand that feeds and then, when they finally come a cropper (hopefully not dragging anyone else and/or the entire group down with them) suddenly not even asking for 'solidarity' but demanding it.
 
belboid said:
because he wasn't sacked for any of those things. By refusing to suport him, the bosses and rcists who campaigned against him won a victory.

That is the point, and anyone who ignores it because Baksh is a bit of a cunt sided with the bosses and racists.
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It's not about him being a bit of a cunt, but about him harassing, bullying, intimidating people you then demand from afar defend him. Should we support every disruptive and unpleasant thug who calls themselves a socialist?

It's interesting how even "loyal" SWP members dropped out of politics during the campaign to avoid being too active in supporting him.:D
 
if someone acts as a cunt in your voluntary group, get the fuck rid, obviously.

Supporting/not opposing the same cunt being sacked from their workplace is a completely and utterly different matter.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
It's not about him being a bit of a cunt, but about him harassing, bullying, intimidating people you then demand from afar defend him. Should we support every disruptive and unpleasant thug who calls themselves a socialist?

It's interesting how even "loyal" SWP members dropped out of politics during the campaign to avoid being too active in supporting him.:D
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sectarian shite.

What he calls himself is irrelevant, he was sacked for doing his job as a union steward. Anyone in that position should be supported.
 
Rod Sleeves said:
Would you actually advise people to stick up for someone who had shouted them down, threatened them with violence, constantly opposed them and deliberately wrecked meetings and projects because of failing to get his own way?

Why do the Socialist Party activists in Lewisham get broad cross movement support, why has Jerry Hicks, why does Karen Riesman?

Because they are not bullying sexist thugs, maybe?

Bash's lack of support has little to do with his politics, and a lot to do with his attitude and personal behaviour.
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Actually Karen Reisman was supported despite her personality
 
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