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SWP split?

I think pub talk is usually just pub talk.

Nigels intervention above is a little shocking above not least as sectarian delight seems to have got him so knotted up he's making little sense even defending basic trotskyism. It also fails to recognise that an identifiable minority has now existed in the SWP for almost a year with no action taken against them what so ever.

The two very recent suspensions are for matters of disapline and will be treated under the disputes procedures linked to above.
 
...an identifiable minority has now existed in the SWP for almost a year with no action taken against them what so ever.

For almost a year! What amazingly open-minded liberalism! Not one of the dissidents has been shot or imprisoned in all that time!

Perhaps the umpteen 'diversity training' courses that Social Workers have attended have finally induced a modicum of tolerance.
 
For almost a year! What amazingly open-minded liberalism! Not one of the dissidents has been shot or imprisoned in all that time!

Perhaps the umpteen 'diversity training' courses that Social Workers have attended have finally induced a modicum of tolerance.

You're a bit obsessed really aren't you.
 
Utter fucking drivel on U75 again. What a surprise. Who'd have thought it?

I agree- but no-one has chosen to elaborate on the political differences in terms of perspectives. I know you try to "keep it all in" (Freud would have had no end of work about anal retentiveness of Leninists) but...
 
Dead fucking right he did. And upon doing so he fought against Stalin from that moment until he was murdered, while all around him, from Kollantai to Kamenev, capitulated one by one.

I realise that Trotsky was a brave person, but its a hell of sight easier not to capitulate when you are thousands of miles from all the madness that was consuming all the other 'Old Bolsheviks'.
 
I agree- but no-one has chosen to elaborate on the political differences in terms of perspectives. I know you try to "keep it all in" (Freud would have had no end of work about anal retentiveness of Leninists) but...

I haven't seen any statement from the Left faction yet, I believe its in the next IB but I doubt I'll find it convincing cos of who's involved. I think everyone else is in the same position hence the lack of perspectives being discussed. They (left faction) have had a meeting in London and more are planned in other places (members only needless to say), but I've heard nothing about how it went.

Incidently, I don't mind sensible people either having a pop at us or disussing what where we're going etc. It's just arseholes like JHE that annoy me.
 
I could take a rough stab at what I imagine will be the left platforms position but to go into any detail would be needlessly taking the debate outside the party I'll leave it in outline.

The SWP's overall perspective is outlined regularly in our paper. That the economic crisis is not going away and many of the worst effects for ordinary people will either remain or get worse. That there is a pressure for the working class to pay (directly or via public service cuts) for the cost of the crisis. This creates a climate where class based resistance is more possible. Within the working class movement a section has been radicalised into taking radical action Lindsey (with all its contradictions), Vestas, Visteon, Leeds bins, Tower Hamlets College, pressure within CWU. This new spirit is in competing with the pressures of the TU's towards more beaurocratic methods of struggle, loyalty to labour and compromise. The role of the SWP is primarily to generalise these examples and bend all our energies into solidarity to help them win.

Following from this we are attempting to develop a generalised rank and file style network out of these disputes around the right to work conferences and demonstrations. One that can both link up and generalise struggles as well as providing a framework where people motivated around one dispute can get involved in future battles. We are also maintaining our work in around a number of political campaigns and united fronts (StWc, UAF and climate change primarily).

Part of adapting to the new situation has been to make the SWP's structures more ready for action. Both rebuilding branches as centres of activity locally and developing a younger cadre to take a more central role in directing the organisation at every level. Encouraging local areas to take their own initiatives and holding more regular educationals and day schools to give people the grounding in theory and confidence to fight their corner inside and outside the party. Basically rebuilding the Party, integrating newer members and asserting the SWP as a base for activity.

I would guess the comrades perspectives would differ over three things.

a) The relative centrality of the StWc. While obviously an important campaign I would be very surprised if the left platform didn't place the question of Imperialism on a near par with the economic crisis. I suspect they will also assume that if more emphasis was put into it local stop the war groups would be similar in size, diversity and appeal to the ones in 2001-2004.
b) A high stress on the need for a StWc style united front in response to the recession. The detail of this proposal I can't predict but a transferring of the model and alliances made I think is likely. I would suspect they will emphasis the political rather then class specific aspects of the crisis.
c) Model of leadership with big focus on initiatives from the leadership "driving things forwards." Strong emphasis on Party/united front's ability to transform the objective circumstance through bold imitative. This is the part I suspect will be most clouded by the personal loyalty to various individuals.
 
I heard (in the pub last night lol) that in the North East people are rejoining the SWP to oppose the left platform to stop it wrecking the SWP, and plan to leave again once it is defeated.

Is there a branch of The Headless Chicken where you live as well? The crib match nearly got postponed because the discussion on the Left Unity faction delayed the opposition.
 
Is there a branch of The Headless Chicken where you live as well? The crib match nearly got postponed because the discussion on the Left Unity faction delayed the opposition.

Here is an extract from a real review of my local cafe

And it attracts everyone from students (to my left) to 50-year-old blokes with bohemian beards and black velvet trousers (to my right) to a bunch of German intellectuals (behind me), who seemed to be discussing either Danni Minogue’s live “outing” of an X-Factor contestant last night, or why they weren’t having any luck in scoring even a little bit of heroin around here

http://www.thecrackmagazine.com/index.php?section=1&category=3&page=1946
 
It's just arseholes like JHE that annoy me.

Such rudeness and foul language! Dr Naseem and I are very disappointed.

316DCC67-D820-B993-DAF5810F961F0298.jpg
 
I could take a rough stab at what I imagine will be the left platforms position but to go into any detail would be needlessly taking the debate outside the party I'll leave it in outline.

The SWP's overall perspective is outlined regularly in our paper. That the economic crisis is not going away and many of the worst effects for ordinary people will either remain or get worse. That there is a pressure for the working class to pay (directly or via public service cuts) for the cost of the crisis. This creates a climate where class based resistance is more possible. Within the working class movement a section has been radicalised into taking radical action Lindsey (with all its contradictions), Vestas, Visteon, Leeds bins, Tower Hamlets College, pressure within CWU. This new spirit is in competing with the pressures of the TU's towards more beaurocratic methods of struggle, loyalty to labour and compromise. The role of the SWP is primarily to generalise these examples and bend all our energies into solidarity to help them win.

Following from this we are attempting to develop a generalised rank and file style network out of these disputes around the right to work conferences and demonstrations. One that can both link up and generalise struggles as well as providing a framework where people motivated around one dispute can get involved in future battles. We are also maintaining our work in around a number of political campaigns and united fronts (StWc, UAF and climate change primarily).

Part of adapting to the new situation has been to make the SWP's structures more ready for action. Both rebuilding branches as centres of activity locally and developing a younger cadre to take a more central role in directing the organisation at every level. Encouraging local areas to take their own initiatives and holding more regular educationals and day schools to give people the grounding in theory and confidence to fight their corner inside and outside the party. Basically rebuilding the Party, integrating newer members and asserting the SWP as a base for activity.

I would guess the comrades perspectives would differ over three things.

a) The relative centrality of the StWc. While obviously an important campaign I would be very surprised if the left platform didn't place the question of Imperialism on a near par with the economic crisis. I suspect they will also assume that if more emphasis was put into it local stop the war groups would be similar in size, diversity and appeal to the ones in 2001-2004.
b) A high stress on the need for a StWc style united front in response to the recession. The detail of this proposal I can't predict but a transferring of the model and alliances made I think is likely. I would suspect they will emphasis the political rather then class specific aspects of the crisis.
c) Model of leadership with big focus on initiatives from the leadership "driving things forwards." Strong emphasis on Party/united front's ability to transform the objective circumstance through bold imitative. This is the part I suspectwill be most clouded by the personal loyalty to various individuals.
drivel on every single point. Do you feel included now?
 
I'm genuinely a little suprised at how little you have to say Butchers. - Have to admit it's not a great loss to the world but there you go.
 
It is also quite possible to note the radical methods of the Lindsey dispute while rejecting the British jobs dynamic of the first dispute. ah well back to work.
 
Shurrrly Harmans death warrants the resurrecting the of this trainspotters thread.

The Irish SWP leadership seem to agree with you anyway, as they used their obituary of Harmon to make some factional points with direct bearing on the current shenanigans inside the British SWP.

The Irish SWP still haven't acknowledged their own recent split, which is interesting.
 
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