SWP expulsions and squabbles

[barney_pig]

"Stronger SWP branches

Alongside all our work we want to continue to strengthen our branches as places for members and contacts to come to discuss political ideas and our strategy in the local area.

Every branch meeting should be built by having leaflets on stalls, ensuring members have plenty of notice (by text, email and phone) and inviting non-members. In addition every month to six weeks we should plan public meetings where the whole meeting is given over to the political topic and we advertise more widely with plenty of time.

These are events to show-case the party in the local area. In some areas it is appropriate to do these as districts rather than branches and joint with student groups.

Branches and districts should make a plan for the coming months with this in mind Below are some suggested branch meeting titles. If branches move quickly they can set up public meetings at the beginning of February either for LGBT history month or the anniversary of the Egyptian revolution.

We should have branch meetings on these topics anyway. We also want to start planning now for events for International Women’s Day on 8 March." SWP party notes. The art of irony is not dead

 

[butchersapron]

Members should know that there are meetings! A step too far.

 

[butchersapron]

Every branch meeting should be built by having leaflets on stalls, ensuring members have plenty of notice (by text, email and phone) and inviting non-members. In addition every month to six weeks we should plan public meetings where the whole meeting is given over to the political topic and we advertise more widely with plenty of time.

I'm in. Now what?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The Counterfire piece is shameless and hilarious, although so long that the humour eventually wears thin. The closest thing to a self-criticism in it is its contention that back in 2005 or so Lord and Lady Macbeth should have gone in harder on the "conservative elements". I'm not surprised that bolshiebhoy likes it, as he's always had a masochistic love of the smack of firm leadership.

I don't think it will do them many favours with the SWP dissidents. If they had any sense they'd have combined the "outward looking" stuff with a bit of mild mea culpaing over the mistakes "we've all" made in terms of leadership style and then gone on to push how innovative and open they allegedly are. But even now, arrogance requires otherwise. They can't do remorse. It isn't in their range. Even when it's in their interests.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I'm in. Now what?

Yes, no direction, no strategy, nothing. They don't know what to do.

I'm genuinely surprised that they haven't come up with some "most important thing ever" wheeze to mobilise the troops around and contrast with "inward looking" oppositionists. This lot aren't even competent CC autocrats. Cliff would be ashamed of them.

 

[discokermit]

It's all become clear to me now the civil war currently waging within the SWP is nothing to do with democracy or the appalling treatment of women making accusations of sexual harassment and rape. No the truth is that this is a war being fought between those who like Jazz and those who do not, all the rest is mere pretense.

We should all have seen this days ago when the mask first slipped and the following appeared on Lenin's Tomb


But instead of seeing the truth we simply scoffed.

We can seen just how deep rooted this conflict is within the SWP when we consider that one of the leading dissidents is no other than China Mieville (if that is in fact his real name, I question the fact that any parent would call their child China), a man who's first novel to make it big was Perdido street station.

Perdido also of course being the name of a jazz song famously performed by Duke Elliington. Coincidence? I think not!

A naive person my think that the title of Mieville's book was a result of his own love of Jazz. However I think the real story is now clear. The fact of the matter is that in the book the station is closing tired the the oppressive and brutal regime that rule over New Crobuzon, the city where the story takes place. The whole Novel therefore is nothing less than an attack on the SWP CC and their love of Jazz.

jazz wars!

 

[SLK]

blimey, when did he become a Green??!!

2004 according to "my democracy" in his webpage thing.

 

[X-77]

So the opposition is censoring the expression of views they don't like already. Roll on the new open democracy.

If 'Kavenism' is who I think it is, then he is being very disingenuous about what he said and why he was deleted. His comment (if he is who I think he is) was this:

"If you could get 30 or so dissenters down to Vauxhall with baseball bats, clear out the filth and change the locks you might have a chance, anything less and you may as well jump ship."

Seymour is not deleting comments willy-nilly.

 

[discokermit]

"If you could get 30 or so dissenters down to Vauxhall with baseball bats, clear out the filth and change the locks you might have a chance, anything less and you may as well jump ship."

 

[butchersapron]

If 'Kavenism' is who I think it is, then he is being very disingenuous about what he said and why he was deleted. His comment (if he is who I think he is) was this:

"If you could get 30 or so dissenters down to Vauxhall with baseball bats, clear out the filth and change the locks you might have a chance, anything less and you may as well jump ship."

Seymour is not deleting comments willy-nilly.

What's your basis for thinking that he is who you think he is?

 

[X-77]

agree, it was just that Kavenism was making out that he got deleted for simply disagreeing with a point of view, which was horseshit.

 

[X-77]

What's your basis for thinking that he is who you think he is?

I'm friends with Seymour on fb and know that he doesn't tend to delete comments just because he disagrees with something. This is perhaps the only comment that has been deleted on this subject and it fitted in with what Kavenism was describing to you (in a very disingenuous way).

 

[butchersapron]

I'm friends with Seymour on fb and know that he doesn't tend to delete comments just because he disagrees with something. This is perhaps the only comment that has been deleted on this subject and it fitted in with what Kavenism was describing to you (in a very disingenuous way).

So, nothing.

You know what you can do with your perhaps don't you?

 

[butchersapron]

This is the opposition. It really really really is.

 

[X-77]

whatever - ask Kavenism if I'm right. Bet I am.

 

[X-77]

This is the opposition. It really really really is.

is this aimed at me? what does it mean?

 

[butchersapron]

is this aimed at me? what does it mean?

That you, you who are seymour's friend (and there is a simpsons/visual allusion in there but never mind) are pretty shit. That if this is the opposition, you wilbe routed and ran down.

 

[X-77]

That you, you who are seymour's friend (and there is a simpsons/visual allusion in there but never mind) are pretty shit. That if this is the opposition, you wilbe routed and ran down.

why thank you kind sir - all I did was call someone out on their bullshit. You're more into this than I am by the sound of it. (not in the SWP btw, but obviously think the CC have behaved attrociously)

 

[TremulousTetra]

If that were true would you not want to take shooting lessons?

And it's not like a gun.

the state IS a weapon, of which the bourgeoisie in a revolutionary situation should be disarmed.

Socialists aim, stated aim, is the withering away of the state. An end to the state. A state is part of the problem, not THE solution. The aim is to replace the state, with democracy. So why would you want lessons in using something, you want to get rid of?

 

[barney_pig]

Democracy is a form of state power, not the negation of the state.

 

[DotCommunist]

Democracy is a form of state power, not the negation of the state.

I recall reading about how uncle joe managed to win democratic votes in baku by stuffing the places with semi-literate muslim workers his fellow revos wouldn'teven look at.


subverting process ftw

 

[bolshiebhoy]

In context of Smith and anti-semitism. Birds of a feather?

I'm not letting this stand. The man has been caused of rape. fair enough, but not proven. How dare you accuse him of anti semitism. You need to defend that claim you really do. otherwise shut up.

 

[love detective]

Supposedly Larry O'Hara has him (Gable) on tape recounting the story about how an unamed 'gentlemen' from the SWP had arrived at a meeting shortly after Gable and and Steve Silver left, and said person said something along the lines of 'where's that jew-boy, i'm going to give him a kicking' in reference to Silver

Although Smith wasn't named directly by Gable in the claim, the various other stuff said in relation to this person clearly refers to Smith

I think most here would agree that Gable is bullshitting/stirring

 

[Nigel Irritable]

SWP blogger "Snowball", who I believe may once have been a much loved poster here under a different name, adds some jibes aimed at Seymour to the debate. I believe that "Snowball" may be the only SWP blogger who is supporting the CC:
http://histomatist.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/lenins-tomb-in-urgent-need-of-repair.html

 

[barney_pig]

http://www.socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=30346
They really have no shame

 

[barney_pig]

"There are still many questions unanswered.

What sort of society treats some of its most vulnerable young people in state institutions as if their lives have no value?

How can the police claim that things are different now?

Officers in the specialist Sapphire unit set up to investigate sex crimes have recently been charged with falsifying records.

That meant that allegations of rape and abuse were not properly investigated.

Politicians have responded to the Savile abuse revelations with much handwringing.

But none of this addresses the roots of the problem of child abuse.

Nor does it address the extent the ruling class will go to in order to protect one of their own—whatever horrendous crimes they are committing."

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

SWP blogger "Snowball", who I believe may once have been a much loved poster here under a different name, adds some jibes aimed at Seymour to the debate. I believe that "Snowball" may be the only SWP blogger who is supporting the CC:
http://histomatist.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/lenins-tomb-in-urgent-need-of-repair.html

So that answers a question asked higher up the thread

also I clicked on a link on that blog which led through to the idiot Cliffite's blog - the last article on it from 2008 is worth a read if you like a laugh at a short polemical oiece that gets almost every fact wrong in the first two paragraphs.

 

[Plumdaff]

2004 according to "my democracy" in his webpage thing.

He recently resigned from the party shortly after his partner, Natalie Bennett, became party leader. He's still a sympathetic fellow traveller.

 

[cesare]

Documents found in Liverpool's council chamber prove Liverpool council has money to spend: http://infantile-disorder.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/documents-prove-liverpool-council-has.html?m=1

 

[cesare]

Universal job match: http://universaljobmatch.eu/

The government omitted to register all the domains.