SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
As far as I know there is nothing formal run by the SWP, but obviously they do discus things on Facebook. But das uberdog my know otherwise.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
Fair enough, I bow to your expertise, particularly after reading this:
http://www.workersliberty.org/node/3771
Note to SpineyNorman: this article contains the phrase 'war communism'.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How long ago were you member emy~?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
To much Martin Thomas in one day. nosferatau warned about this.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
We're still consulting with the global working class on what line to take. Have patience, the one true party of the proletariat will not be rushed.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
If the splitters are forming a war communist group they can definitely count me in.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, I was just commenting on why the press haven't covered it much.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I think if they thought that the SWP was providing a pole of attraction to those dissatisfied with austerity, and thus growing rapidly, it would. But given that there's very little awareness that the SWP and the broader revolutionary left amongst the public as a whole, there's not much scope in them engaging with it.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Terrifyingly it was about 7 years ago now. But have just checked with my housemate who is a member (although not hugely involved at the moment) and he is not aware of anything.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the IB is the only 'formal' forum for members to discuss party issues, and has obvious deficiencies.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That second part is more 'terrifying'.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What is the IB?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the Internal Bulletin - the articles criticising internal democracy written by Paris Thompson, posted at the beginning of this thread, were posted in the IB for example.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
He's ok, but has been stubbornly silent about this whole mess, unlike most of the SWP members I know who are furious.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
IB to me means a regularly produced (monthly say) forum for the members to talk about the group. Not something the CC punts out to the members written by itself. Party notes isn't this sort of IB.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
i think the IB is produced more regularly than when i was in the party - at the very least it's taken far more seriously and distributed better (when i was still a member it took months and months of persistent calling for me even to be included in the Party Notes e-mail list - Party Notes is now published on the website publically). they have also been allowing critical articles such as those from Paris; but Paris was a very well known and well liked member who had formally worked at the centre, and knew how to get himself printed. for most members it would be an impossibility.
ETA - should make clear that the IB is distinct from Party Notes
ETA - should make clear that the IB is distinct from Party Notes
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Anymore info on this IB?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
technically, by the book, the SWP can pretty much expel or exclude you at any time for any particular reason they wish. things like 'factions', despite playing such a prominent role in the SWP's disciplinary code, remain undefined and so can be applied to anything. the point being made right now is that having recognised the ridiculousness of this situation, the opposition have finally just come into the open and are basically challenging the leadership to expel them en masse (which would cripple the organisation).
they're safe so long as they maintain the discussion, pressure and momentum. as soon as that's gone the leadership will be able to pick off individuals again
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Interestingly the last party notes on their website is from 10 Dec, I wonder why that might be?
As for the internal bulletins there are still only 3 a year 1 a month for the 3 months leading up to conference. Noting has changed in that regard and it has always been the case that any member can submit any contribution they want. What has changed is it is now sent by email rather than in print format. Which might make it easier for people without regular contact to get hold of a copy.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They haven't come out in the open. Do they really exist?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
their online personas are individually in the open, and most of them are openly known to the leadership. i don't know if that's enough but they do exist.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
It's gonna be a long hard winter for any of the poor souls in the SWP who think they are going to reform anything at all, let alone make any radical changes.
At the Unite the Resistance meeting I was talking about yesterday the SWPers were apparently just carrying on in exactly the same way. The sectarianism, maneuvering and dishonesty was in its usual full flow, and if anything was even worse according to the person I know who was there. A couple of people asked if the next meeting could be held jointly with NSSN, COR and any decent trade's councils and this was met with contempt by most of the SWPers there, with the usual lines that what UTR had done was brilliant and vital to "the class" and several statements about how important it was to keep people on board like Kevin Courtney (deputy general secretary of the NUT), even though he had sold the pensions dispute down the river. When asked what UTR had actually done in practical terms there wasn't an answer.
There were people at the meeting in the "moderate" faction as well. I can't see anything changing. They will lose some members and carry on as before, but even more inward looking and even more isolated.
At the Unite the Resistance meeting I was talking about yesterday the SWPers were apparently just carrying on in exactly the same way. The sectarianism, maneuvering and dishonesty was in its usual full flow, and if anything was even worse according to the person I know who was there. A couple of people asked if the next meeting could be held jointly with NSSN, COR and any decent trade's councils and this was met with contempt by most of the SWPers there, with the usual lines that what UTR had done was brilliant and vital to "the class" and several statements about how important it was to keep people on board like Kevin Courtney (deputy general secretary of the NUT), even though he had sold the pensions dispute down the river. When asked what UTR had actually done in practical terms there wasn't an answer.
There were people at the meeting in the "moderate" faction as well. I can't see anything changing. They will lose some members and carry on as before, but even more inward looking and even more isolated.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
Martin Thomas is a state capper.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
New in the sense that it was a new article that turned up in my newsfeed. I'm not making any value judgements about the newness of the ideas contained therein.
electric.avenue
lots of work to be done
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Mr Gluckstein, do you mean? No - someone who was on the CC last year, with a very similar name. Changed just enough (I presume) so that he could deny it is him to prospective employers.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who then?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Is he still? I know he was, but kinda assumed he'd given up on it after losing the argument within the group.
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