SWP expulsions and squabbles

[belboid]

Fuck me are they still banging on about unite the resistance!

Of course! This years conference should be massive!! There'll be, oooh, dozens of people there.

 

[quiquaquo]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tl1lypz4qo37ts4/PreConf Bulletin ii Oct 2014-2.pdf?dl=0

Should be it

"No to a word limit in bulletins"

When are Callinicos and Kimber going to do the decent thing and fuck right off?

 

[Limerick Red]

I found their bits on UAF quite interesting, UAF are not able to pull the numbers anymore, from what I have seen on the ground is they are moving their UAF full timers (I'm guessing full timers) seamlessly from UAF to "stand up to ukip"(or "shut up and vote labour")
I'm just baffled at their understanding of a " broad front" against fascism , which in my understanding historically comes from a united working class front of progressive ( revolutionary) organisations, their broad front involves Tories , imans, reverends and priests. If the unions stopped outsourcing their antifascist work to uaf and actually started organising themselves as some branches of the RMT have started doing, it would negate the swp winding down their antifascist fronts when other opertunitues arise, as they have done twice? Before .

 

[The39thStep]

I found their bits on UAF quite interesting, UAF are not able to pull the numbers anymore, from what I have seen on the ground is they are moving their UAF full timers (I'm guessing full timers) seamlessly from UAF to "stand up to ukip"(or "shut up and vote labour")
I'm just baffled at their understanding of a " broad front" against fascism , which in my understanding historically comes from a united working class front of progressive ( revolutionary) organisations, their broad front involves Tories , imans, reverends and priests. If the unions stopped outsourcing their antifascist work to uaf and actually started organising themselves as some branches of the RMT have started doing, it would negate the swp winding down their antifascist fronts when other opertunitues arise, as they have done twice? Before .

Isn't / wasn't it explained as a united front of a special kind ?

 

[chilango]

I've always been slightly sceptical about one aspect of these stories - the "bit of paper signed". The SWP, even when they were notably bigger, younger and more active than today, have never had the numbers of people or degree of organisation it would require to systematically hassle everyone who signed, day, a petition. Even if they were stupid enough to think that was a good use of their time.

What they do try to do (and exhort each other to do in turgid internal bulletins) is "follow up" people who have signed a bit of paper indicating that they want to join the SWP. Which is quite a different thing.

Back when I did my time (early '90s) we certainly did (on occasion) hound names from petitions. Anyone signing with the slightest bit of interest/enthusiasm would have a discrete asterix or similar appended to their signature to indicate that they were to be followed up. If in the subsequent chasing they didn't tell us to fuck off they'd be counted as a "contact".

Weren't always that thorough mind, really depended on the zeal of the cadre involved.

 

[comrade spurski]

Isn't / wasn't it explained as a united front of a special kind ?

I think it was respect that was described like that by the cc at a Marxism...think the person was sean vernell...Made no sense to me cos I thought the theory of the united front was based around single issue campaigns and have no idea how an organisation like respect was considered a single issue campaign when they were promoting it as an election alternative for the left.

 

[Scribbling S]

University of Sussex Student Union holding Extraordinary General Meeting to sort of ban SWSS/SWP , triggered by 150 signature petition
http://www.sussexstudent.com/events/6635/621/

 

[JHE]

------- Motion as Submitted:

The Socialist Workers’ Party (SWP) have had numerous allegations raised that they have a systematic problem of rape, rape cover-up, and rape apologism in their party.

The Students’ Union Believes

1. The Union should take a stand against organisations that make women and survivors feel unsafe on campus.
2. The 'Socialist Worker’, the official newspaper of the SWP, should not be sold on campus, as its content is highly troubling and upsetting to women.

The Students’ Union Resolves

1. To remove any student organisation from the Union that fails to adhere to our Zero Tolerance Policy.
2. To not support the SWP and SWSS (Socialist Workers’ Student Society) and all officially affiliated organisations, through use of any union resources, included, but not limited to stands, printing, room booking services, or union rooms.
3. To refuse to stamp/authorise/print any SWSS posters, and to remove from the Union any such posters.
4. To strongly discourage SWSS and the SWP from holding events at Sussex, and discourage the advertising of any events on or off campus.

It should be made clear that this decision has been made as they make people feel exceptionally unsafe.

Do the people who propose this motion, and the people who propose similar motions elsewhere, really believe their shit?

Maybe they do, but I find it difficult to believe that they do. I don't know. Maybe I'm just so old I don't understand stupid intolerant posturing student politicians any more.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Do the people who propose this motion, and the people who propose similar motions elsewhere, really believe their shit?

Maybe they do, but I find it difficult to believe that they do. I don't know. Maybe I'm just so old I don't understand stupid intolerant posturing student politicians any more.

I'm convinced quite a lot of them don't. I actually think some secretly disbelieve all of it but are afraid to say anything because they don't have many friends at uni and are gonna keep up this shit for as long as it takes to graduate and be an accountant.

Nobody likes Socialist Worker, but the idea that it is "highly troubling and upsetting to women" is a joke. The motion reads like it was written by a group of Victorian gentlemen, keen to ensure the women folk weren't exposed to anything that could excite them or make them hysterical.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

University of Sussex Student Union holding Extraordinary General Meeting to sort of ban SWSS/SWP , triggered by 150 signature petition
http://www.sussexstudent.com/events/6635/621/

Amazing they got that many signatures, well maybe not.

 

[Scribbling S]

motion just defeated -by big majority I am told. I think the proposers were from "anarchist" and "feminist" groups - I don't have the complete story, and think it is very likely that there were anarchists and feminists against the motion as well, but I am guessing that the proposers may also have a mix of motives , including no doubt genuine anger over SWP behaviour, but also opportunism, chance to do down an opposing/rival group , moralism etc. (anarchist for banning other groups doesn't seem to work easily at the level of principle, for example) - and the obvious arguments about democracy , free speech (you'd definitely have to ban the LibDem's on this logic and so on) seem to have won out

 

[Scribbling S]

44 in favour, 141 against, 35 abstentions. The motion falls. (on twitter #SussexEMM )

 

[andysays]

Amazing they got that many signatures, well maybe not.

It's almost like someone's got a list of names of people who used to be members of the students' union, many years ago, or perhaps some of those who came to an open day at Sussex once but then decided to go elsewhere.

Either way, that use of a paper membership is clearly shocking and unprecedented...

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Back when I did my time (early '90s) we certainly did (on occasion) hound names from petitions. Anyone signing with the slightest bit of interest/enthusiasm would have a discrete asterix or similar appended to their signature to indicate that they were to be followed up. If in the subsequent chasing they didn't tell us to fuck off they'd be counted as a "contact".

Weren't always that thorough mind, really depended on the zeal of the cadre involved.

Bizarre, but even that was targeted right? In the opinion of some enthusiast on a stall you seemed keen? Not just random name harvesting?

It does begin to explain the occasional story from people who insist they never signed anything that could have indicated a wish to join though.

 

[Scribbling S]

I'm not at all surprised they got 150 signatures - it isn't going to be hard to get 150 signatures on the basis of "the SWP who make a lot of noise on campus did this rape cover up" - it's just toxic for the SWP , in exactly the way they were warned . This doesn't finally translate into votes I think because of the arguments about bans, democracy, and the weakness of the "safe space" argument. But (from the twitter description of meeting) being forced to devote a whole General Meeting to defending themselves, being accused of sending abusive tweets to backers of motion, etc. isn't a good place to be .

 

[bolshiebhoy]

44 in favour, 141 against, 35 abstentions. The motion falls. (on twitter #SussexEMM )

Fair enough. Would have been quite bizarre if it passed. When I was punched by an rcp guy at the lse he got a week ban I think it was from su property. Passed unanimously (although I was against it and we kissed and made up eventually) but it was deffo seen as a last resort by everyone. Serious shit banning anyone but fash.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Rather somber tone around a lot of party stuff at the mo. This from the prof in his review of Daniel Bensaid's (sp!) auto biog struck me as rather gloomy:

' In the book Daniel conveys his meaning when he writes of “an active waiting, an urgent patience, an endurance and a perseverance that are the opposite of passive waiting for a miracle”. This was the stance he believed was necessary for revolutionaries in difficult times. When I first read the book I thought Daniel was exaggerating the difficulties. Now I think what he recommends is exactly what we need.'

 

[butchersapron]

Cunt. What party is it this week?

Oh, we're all back to normal now. Fuck right off. Your normal is why this thread and others exist.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

I'm not at all surprised they got 150 signatures - it isn't going to be hard to get 150 signatures on the basis of "the SWP who make a lot of noise on campus did this rape cover up" - it's just toxic for the SWP , in exactly the way they were warned . This doesn't finally translate into votes I think because of the arguments about bans, democracy, and the weakness of the "safe space" argument. But (from the twitter description of meeting) being forced to devote a whole General Meeting to defending themselves, being accused of sending abusive tweets to backers of motion, etc. isn't a good place to be .

Christ no you're right, it's hard to imagine a worse one. Question is how widespread and long lived that experience will be.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Nice to hear from you too ba

 

[imposs1904]

Fair enough. Would have been quite bizarre if it passed. When I was punched by an rcp guy at the lse he got a week ban I think it was from su property. Passed unanimously (although I was against it and we kissed and made up eventually) but it was deffo seen as a last resort by everyone. Serious shit banning anyone but fash.

What was that about? I take it was back in the day.

 

[comrade spurski]

The motion is stupid in my opinion but no where as near as outrageous as the swps behaviour it complains about.
I wouldn't call for them to be banned from my union and I wouldn't support them being banned but I'm fucked if I'd support them.
Their shit politics and arrogance caused this shit storm so they can sit it out on their own imo

 

[bolshiebhoy]

What was that about? I take it was back in the day.

Ancient history, week of the big Welling demo in 93, I called him a scab, he split my lip. We were fine after he served his ban, Big red headed Irishman. Delta told me off for calling him a shillelagh swinger which I reckoned was unfair given I was irish too and his first did feel like a shillelagh. Delta demurred.

 

[Pickman's model]

other deltas have included lieutenant roger hercule gustave degueldre, commander of the oas's delta commandos in algeria.

 

[redcogs]

You know a lot of stuff Pickman sir

 

[DaveCinzano]

week of the big Welling demo in 93, I called him a scab

Presumably because the RCP mobilised its cadres at Plumstead Common to try and prevent people from going on the ‘Unity’ demo (short version: “because ‘anti-fascist’ is a meaningless description, even Margaret Thatcher would consider herself ‘anti-fascist...”)?

I assume this chap was IFM also?

 

[danny la rouge]

The motion is stupid in my opinion but no where as near as outrageous as the swps behaviour it complains about.
I wouldn't call for them to be banned from my union and I wouldn't support them being banned but I'm fucked if I'd support them.
Their shit politics and arrogance caused this shit storm so they can sit it out on their own imo

It's a juvenile motion, but the SWP are a rape apologist party, and they can go fuck themselves. I'd no platform the fuckers on a personal basis.

 

[Pickman's model]

Presumably because the RCP mobilised its cadres at Plumstead Common to try and prevent people from going on the ‘Unity’ demo (short version: “because ‘anti-fascist’ is a meaningless description, even Margaret Thatcher would consider herself ‘anti-fascist...”)?

I assume this chap was IFM also?

the first thing i noticed at welling, was that for the first time in my experience the speeches were given before the demonstration. people were nearly bored into submission before the demonstration had begun. it is bad enough being told why you've marched, as though you didn't know, it's worse to be told why you're about to march.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

The motion is stupid in my opinion but no where as near as outrageous as the swps behaviour it complains about.
I wouldn't call for them to be banned from my union and I wouldn't support them being banned but I'm fucked if I'd support them.
Their shit politics and arrogance caused this shit storm so they can sit it out on their own imo

I'm sure you're not alone. Reasonable enough position given everything people believe.

 

[Pickman's model]

You know a lot of stuff Pickman sir

the first publication named searchlight of which i'm aware was issued by the ku klux klan.

and as for the first organization including the phrase 'socialist workers party'...

*gets coat*