SWP expulsions and squabbles

[killer b]

it's the attitude that makes people think marxists are drooling blank-eyed cultists, more like.

 

[butchersapron]

it's the attitude that makes people think marxists are drooling blank-eyed cultists, more like.

Easy to write off the belief of millions. Bit of fucking equality here brother.

 

[killer b]

you might have to run that by me again mate.

 

[butchersapron]

you might have to run that by me again mate.

Your rather easy anger at people writing off the religious in the same terms as you just used above. I think it's a bit of a cheek. A downright scandal in fact.

 

[killer b]

erk! consider me chastened.

 

[killer b]

although fwiw, if someone claimed that domestic violence was only solvable through the love of jesus, I'd probably call them a drooling blank eyed cultist too.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Sacha Ismail posts here.

Not recently it seems. He is a weird fucker, keeps trying to talk to me on FB.

 

[barney_pig]

Not recently it seems. He is a weird fucker, keeps trying to talk to me on FB.

Less talk, more stalk

 

[Karmickameleon]

I think his name was on the opposition resignation statement but it just says Colin not Colin Barker. Ewa Barker signed it.

I am told that Colin Barker hasn't in fact resigned as yet. I assumed he had for the reasons that you give and the fact that he attended the RS21 inaugural meeting. Any more info on this?

 

[Red Cat]

I am told that Colin Barker hasn't in fact resigned as yet. I assumed he had for the reasons that you give and the fact that he attended the RS21 inaugural meeting. Any more info on this?

No, afraid not. I did think it would be more obvious if and when he resigned.

 

[Trotter]

I am told that Colin Barker hasn't in fact resigned as yet. I assumed he had for the reasons that you give and the fact that he attended the RS21 inaugural meeting. Any more info on this?

Karmickameleon - you are correct that Colin B has not resigned. But he also attended the RS21 meeting, spoke, and made a proposal to be voted on. I think comrades can draw their own conclusions from that.

 

[Simon B]

This bit (the important bit IMO) is correct as far as we know though, right?

I have no dog in this fight but, in the interests of hearing two sides of an issue, here is the AWL response.
http://www.workersliberty.org/cpgblies
They say that the CPGB article is almost completely inaccurate, and that a) the accused was never an AWL member, b) the event at which the victim was confronted with the accused was not their event and c) no one has resigned from the AWL over this.

 

[killer b]

The detail sounds very similar to another swp related case referee to some time ago on this thread - some kind of mix up?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I have no dog in this fight

Although you do claim to be an ex-AWL member. As for the details, I genuinely wouldn't know which of two compulsively dishonest grouplets to disbelieve first. The CPGB are gossip mongering fantasists, while the AWL are malicious liars.

 

[butchersapron]

I have no dog in this fight but, in the interests of hearing two sides of an issue, here is the AWL response.
http://www.workersliberty.org/cpgblies
They say that the CPGB article is almost completely inaccurate, and that a) the accused was never an AWL member, b) the event at which the victim was confronted with the accused was not their event and c) no one has resigned from the AWL over this.

Being ex-awl means that you probably do have a dog of some sort in this fight.

 

[leyton96]

Although you do claim to be an ex-AWL member. As for the details, I genuinely wouldn't know which of two compulsively dishonest grouplets to disbelieve first. The CPGB are gossip mongering fantasists, while the AWL are malicious liars.

Indeed. The only point that both sides agree on is that this individual did attend their 'Ideas for Freedom' event and that the AWL did 'negotiate' how he participated. Now, I don't know what this guy is supposed to have done. It might even be possible (not likely, just possible) that what the AWL did was right and proper. The point however, is that if any other left organisation had acted as the AWL did at IFF then the AWL would have absolutely crucified them.

Once again the hypocrisy of the AWL is nauseating.

 

[Simon B]

Being ex-awl means that you probably do have a dog of some sort in this fight.

I really don't. It must be about 8 years since I was a member and I haven not attended any of their events since and nor do I identify with their politics. I do still have friends in it.
Anyway, I just wanted to make people aware that the CPGB version of events is contested. I have no knowledge of these events other than the two articles.

 

[butchersapron]

I know nothing about this, just been sent it:

Warwick Anti-Sexism @UWASS
Yesterday's protest against Alex Callinicos - letting him know we don't accept rape apologists on our campus.pic.twitter.com/nfaq2GY5zN

 

[barney_pig]

I know nothing about this, just been sent it:

Warwick Anti-Sexism @UWASS
Yesterday's protest against Alex Callinicos - letting him know we don't accept rape apologists on our campus.pic.twitter.com/nfaq2GY5zN

was the proff there?

 

[butchersapron]

I would guess he was supposed to be. Was this the equivalent of the infamous edl kfc invasion?

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a question: how did the prof rise to the top of the SWP? (This isn't a point about his background btw) Is it because he's so much more clever than anyone else? What did he (uniquely?) bring that enabled him to rise so?

 

[belboid]

Is it because he's so much more clever than anyone else?

Yes.

Far and away the most insightful of the later theorists. he didn't ever come up with any specific theory that became central to 'the tradition' but he espoused the politics clearly and comparatively concisely (for an academic), and a few of his books are still great.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes.

Far and away the most insightful of the later theorists. he didn't ever come up with any specific theory that became central to 'the tradition' but he espoused the politics clearly and comparatively concisely (for an academic), and a few of his books are still great.

I've always defended his books - on here and elsewhere - but i don't see how that would automatically translate into internal power. But, if that's what people who were inside say is the reason, then i can't really argue.

 

[belboid]

Well, its that and the fact that there's been no one 'better' to replace him. He's the last of the semi-old guard, on the CC with Cliff, Hallas and Harman, the holy troika, he is the last holder of the sacred flame.

 

[chilango]

I know nothing about this, just been sent it:

Warwick Anti-Sexism @UWASS
Yesterday's protest against Alex Callinicos - letting him know we don't accept rape apologists on our campus.pic.twitter.com/nfaq2GY5zN

Hmmm.

 

[butchersapron]

Sure, get that. But that itself leaves open the question of how he became a central part of the old guard in the first place. What motivated his promotion and who promoted him. In fact, how does top-level promotion work full stop? I can see the use of him in establishing/re-enforcing the parties intellectual credibility but in what practical way has he helped shape the SWP as a class-fighting force, as something that the w/c sees as theirs? I cannot see that he has at all, and i can only think that those who promoted him (and others) did not seriously expect him (and others) to do so. So we're then left with the basis for elite promotion being intellectual stuff.

 

[locolomo]

So we're then left with the basis for elite promotion being intellectual stuff.

Wasn't Maxine on the CC for a while? I think that rules out intellectualism as the basis for promotion.

 

[butchersapron]

Wasn't Maxine on the CC for a while? I think that rules out intellectualism as the basis for promotion.

Yes, bit of flaw in my argument there. More than a few in fact now i think of it.

 

[belboid]

Sure, get that. But that itself leaves open the question of how he became a central part of the old guard in the first place. What motivated his promotion and who promoted him. In fact, how does top-level promotion work full stop? I can see the use of him in establishing/re-enforcing the parties intellectual credibility but in what practical way has he helped shape the SWP as a class-fighting force, as something that the w/c sees as theirs? I cannot see that he has at all, and i can only think that those who promoted him (and others) did not seriously expect him (and others) to do so. So we're then left with the basis for elite promotion being intellectual stuff.

In the early days he seemed to be a bit on the sidelines of the CC, there to provide intellectual cover and deep theoretical justification. Given the choices seemed to be him or John Rees, its not that surprising he came out on top. He only became more central as the other died off. Combined with the fact that he only took responsibility for international work - which most members (and I suspect CC members) were unaware of - then there was little to explicitly tarnish his star.

 

[Trotter]

Sure, get that. But that itself leaves open the question of how he became a central part of the old guard in the first place. What motivated his promotion and who promoted him. In fact, how does top-level promotion work full stop? I can see the use of him in establishing/re-enforcing the parties intellectual credibility but in what practical way has he helped shape the SWP as a class-fighting force, as something that the w/c sees as theirs? I cannot see that he has at all, and i can only think that those who promoted him (and others) did not seriously expect him (and others) to do so. So we're then left with the basis for elite promotion being intellectual stuff.

First came to prominence as a member of the IS National Student Committee. He was co-opted to the committee because of his "orthodoxy" not because of his student activism. He had already embarked on his academic career at LSE. Later was a supporter of the "revolt of the organisers" challenge to the CC slate in the late 70s who tried to add Paul Holborow to the CC. They lost, but Callinicos was added to the CC not too long afterwards.